Castle Street in Sligo Town
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Where: Sligo, Ireland
Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.
When: 01 January 1910
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
This was taken just around the corner from our 1798 Memorial on Market Street. Good vista, good mix of businesses, very clear registration number on that motor too (IK 833)…
Wonder was that boy dreaming of owning his own bicycle from W.A. & A.F. Woods, before the bright shiny car pulled up and made him think a motor car would be even better?
Date: Circa 1910??
NLI Ref.: L_ROY_11530
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 97025
Wonder was that boy dreaming of owning his own bicycle from W.A. & A.F. Woods, before the bright shiny car pulled up and made him think a motor car would be even better?
Date: Circa 1910??
NLI Ref.: L_ROY_11530
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 97025
castlestreet
sligo
ireland
connaught
connacht
shops
distemper
tailors
clothes
gaslighting
patrickfeeney
butchers
victuallers
sidecar
jarvey
horse
meat
ladders
tylers
tylersons
jamescurrie
pratts
motorspirit
wawoods
afwoods
waafwoods
barefoot
bicycles
bikes
kshoes
shoeshop
chauffeur
car
motorcar
automobile
ik833
robertfrench
williamlawrence
lawrencecollection
glassnegative
baker
confectioner
motorunion
recommendedrepairer
arthurfwoods
brethren
bernardcarroll
outfitter
nationallibraryofireland
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derangedlemur
maps.google.ie/?ll=54.270537,-8.472047&spn=0.004329,0...
DannyM8
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003264496/ James Curry 1911 Baker and confectioner House 21 Castle Street Was Also There in 1901
derangedlemur
maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,569202,835861,7,9
derangedlemur
I see the car has a chauffeur.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That's great, Danny, as it's not possible to tell from the photo that Curries at no. 4 Castle Street is a bakery/confectionery. Dating's good too - I think this is quite a late Lawrence photo. And the Curries were Congregationalists. Don't think we've come across too many of them up to now.
derangedlemur
There's a Patrick Feeney shopkeeper and publican in Thomas St in 1901. There's no butcher and no Patrick Feeney on Market St in either 1901 or 1911.
Paddywhack56
Car looks like a 1910 or 1911 model Daimler. IK reg is Dublin City & County. Great street scene, by the way.
derangedlemur
We've a John Feeney, Victualler, in 1911
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Added to map, thanks. And would agree, definitely a chauffeur. It hasn't always been so easy to tell.
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paddywhack56 Probably a travelling salesman - it was not uncommon for them to be driven in the early days.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paddywhack56 Thank you! And if the registrations started in 1903, how long to get to 833? This photograph can't be later than 1914...
DannyM8
I remember a friend telling me about his grandfather who was a tea salesman and that he was driven around on his circuits of the country. One day his grandfather left a package in the car and only realised after a few minutes, he returned to the car to get the package, as soon he had the package and closed the door the driver presuming the call was over drove off to the next call without looking and left my friends grandfather on the side of the road!.
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Did you not say once that you had a book (in the library!) with details of early registrations and owners?
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I did and I did not lie! Checked a lot of numbers for people too. Will be working in The Stacks this p.m. so will check then... (A lot of gaps in the years we have)
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Love the tea salesman story. But I'm seeing maybe more of a retired colonel in the passenger seat...
DannyM8
Tylers Shoes must have been an enormous enterprise at this time they seem to turn up almost every town or city photo.
DannyM8
As the motor car began to find favour in 1904, the Anglo-American Oil Company quickly moved into selling petrol and by 1910 was firmly established in Ireland. The motor fuel marketed at the time was called Pratts Perfection Spirit and was imported from America in a highly distinctive 2-gallon green can, complete with brass stopper.
DannyM8
Motor Union recommended repairer sign like the one on woods shop. http://www.flickr.com/photos/beamishmuseum/6041402842/in/photostream/
derangedlemur
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Purchasing commissions was abolished in 1871. Colonels after that wouldn't necessarily be independently wealthy and I doubt the pension would stretch to a Daimler.
DannyM8
THE Motor Union of Great Britain and Ireland was formed early in the year 1901. The rapid growth of the automobile movement rendered it necessary to form an organisation which would include all automobilists under one banner. In 1904 a revised constitution was adopted, in which provision was made for representation upon the General Committee of all clubs joining the Union, as well as for motorists joining it in an individual capacity. The success of the new scheme was immediate, and at the present time all the principal organised bodies of automobilists in London and the Provinces are included in the membership of the Motor Union.
derangedlemur
Arthur F Woods is in the 1911 census too, but no W. A. His religion is down as Brethren (so called). Apparently they're a result of a schism in the Plymouth Brethren, of whom also nobody has heard.
Paddywhack56
According to material published in Irish Vintage Scene magazine on the old registration system, IK was first issued in December 1903 and ran until March 1927 when it was replaced by the Z prefix (the only single-letter Irish registration, by the way). As 2-letter prefixes completed after 9999 we're talking 9999 car registrations in 24 years but that was in pre-Celtic Tiger Ireland! I'd guess that registrations were lower in the earlier years which should make 833 about right for 1910/11.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Country gent then, stop raining on my imaginings!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paddywhack56 Excellent! Love being told what I want to hear. :D
DannyM8
W.A. and A.F. Woods, Limited was set up on 14 Aug 1899 in Sligo. It seems to be still going today!!
derangedlemur
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland I think http://www.flickr.com/photos/paddywhack56 has also established that he's a Dubliner.
DannyM8
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003264494/ Mary Jane Wilson is a sub postmistress in 1911 and a Bookseller stationer in 1901 - this is the building to the left of Currie
derangedlemur
We also have Barnard Carroll, Outfittor, on the left hand side. I had thought his spelling was not the best but looking at the form, it seems to be his or the census taker's method of representing the letter "e" that's the problem. He's really Bernard, outfitter.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] His brother, who bought and registered the car in Dublin, may have been visiting him and loaned him car and chauffeur to proceed around the town...
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Oh, we absolutely have heard of the Plymouth Brethren before...
derangedlemur
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland So what does that make - three of them in the whole country? They seem over-represented in the photographic record.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Bernard Carroll, outfitter - excellent! Think I can make out "stemper" (Distemper?) in extreme left shop window - hardware shop? (Unless it's "tember" - a calendar?)
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland 420 in 1911 and 755 in 1911 - Plymouth Brethren that is http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Plymouth Brethren: [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] 420 in 1901 and 755 in 1911.
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Fools seldom differ!!!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That's a good long life for a business.
derangedlemur
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland I can fix distortion and fading but not minisculeness. You need to scan it bigger if you want to read that one.
DannyM8
The wire spoked wheels should help with dating and naming the car - it seems that most early cars have wooden carriage like wheels!
derangedlemur
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I looked this up for one of the other street scenes - I think we established that wire wheels came in in 1906 or thereabouts.
Paddywhack56
If it's a Daimler (and I still think it's very like one), it's unlikely to be pre-1908 judging from the photos of elderly Daimlers I was able to find online. I'm personally favouring the 1910/11 model (probably of the 48HP touring car). Daimlers are very expensive now and I think would have been so even in the early days so I'm thinking touring gent with chauffeur or possibly well-to-do businessman, magistrate or some such. They have possibly stopped to obtain petrol because as Danny M8 points out Pratt's was a brand of petrol at the time. Also, I think on-street petrol pumps were still to come. Of course, if the photo dates from the later end of your range (1914, I think) and the Daimler is 1910, it could have been bought secondhand in Dublin by one of the local gentry or indeed new and registered in Dublin if said gentry had a house in town.
derangedlemur
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paddywhack56 I thought it looked like TD15 but I wouldn't know much about vintage cars.
Paddywhack56
On closer inspection, I'd say you're right derangedlemur. While the bodywork is broadly similar as you'd expect from cars of that era in the same model year from the same manufacturer, the TD15 has similar spoked wheels to the car in Sligo while the 48HP has much heavier-looking wheels. Well spotted. A 15HP car might allow for the travelling salesman hypothesis after all.
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] http://www.flickr.com/photos/paddywhack56 I would think the TD 15 is correct. Lets wait and see if http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland can find a registered name!!
TEXASJOHN
I like the contrast between the horse drawn cart and an automobile next to each other!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Having emerged relatively unscathed from our stacks, here's what the Irish Motor Directory and Motorists' Annual revealed... No sign of IK 833 in our earliest volume (1907), and in fact the highest IK registered car, i.e. county of Dublin, is IK 272. Then we've a hiatus of a few years. Our next volume is 1912-1913. By this date, there are 997 cars and 593 cycles registered in Dublin, and there at IK 833 in all his glory is (drum roll please): Anthony T. Gilfoyle, D.L., Carrowcullen House, Skreen, Sligo Mr Gilfoyle is still there in the 1914-1915 volume, but in 1915-1916 there's not a trace of IK 833. It skips from IK 832 to IK 834.
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Sure the Girl's a genius...... He's not in either Census!!!
DannyM8
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003272681/ but he owns house no 6 in Skreen Sligo in 1911 - Two servants living in the house in 1911 www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003272695/
DannyM8
Carrowculleen House (H166) At the time of Griffith's Valuation, Lecarrow was the property of Thomas Guilfoyle and was valued at £14. In 1906 Anthony Guilfoyle was the owner of the house at Lecarrow, valued at £31. McTernan notes that the property was purchased by Anthony Gilfoyle, a leading Sligo merchant, c.1806. It was extended in the 1840s. From the 1920s until the 1990s it was owned by the Mercy Order. The house is now part of the Holy Hill Hermitage complex. landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show....
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland did the book not say what type of car it is?
Gerry Ward
These premises are now occupied by Heatons:
All Rights Reserved. © Copyright Gerry Ward 2013.
derangedlemur
What's D.L. - Deputy Lieutenant?
derangedlemur
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Here's the house back in the day: maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,552888,830773,7,9
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I don't think so. Doctor of Law? Doctor of Letters? From a very quick Googling, Mr Gilfoyle went to Trinity College Dublin, had quite a few letters after his name, and was an active member of the Royal Society of Antiquaries.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] No make or model, it just gives the reg. no., and registered owner.
derangedlemur
Doctor of law is LL.D. and Doctor of Letters is usually D. Lit. I must google him myself, it seems.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Yes I know that, but I came across some antiquated versions last night that seemed to imply an older version of D. Lit., etc.
derangedlemur
Well I can't find anything else on him and he's not a listed Deputy Lieutenant in either Ireland or England. I guess it's a doctorate, right enough.