Very Grand Stands

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Where: Kildare, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1868

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
This is almost certainly where our Dandies from Friday were headed, or headed home from (bad grammar, but you know what I mean) - a race meeting at Punchestown - very distinctive stands in the background.

Can anyone identify the regiment from the soldiers' uniforms?

Date: Circa 1868

NLI Ref: STP_1108

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 30648
crowds ireland racemeeting horses carriages hats parasols soldiers stands uniforms grandstands stereoscopiccollection stereopairs stereographicnegatives stereoscope jamessimonton frederickhollandmares johnlawrence lawrencecollection 1860s punchestown kildare leinster frogging bellowofsergeants binoculars nationallibraryofireland 19thcentury

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    ccferrie

    • 28/Jan/2013 09:50:53

    "In 1868 the Prince of Wales, later King Edward VII of England, attends the festival much to the disapproval of his mother, Queen Victoria" www.punchestown.com/history.asp

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    FrigateRN

    • 28/Jan/2013 10:10:47

    It does look busy and with a cross hatch of people and dress.

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    eyelightfilms

    • 28/Jan/2013 10:24:15

    Need the collective noun for sergeants.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Jan/2013 10:39:10

    I think this artist's impression shows the same stands.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Jan/2013 11:07:57

    OS 25" link at GeoHive

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Jan/2013 11:43:19

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Thanks, Niall, very distinctive stands alright. And both photos now added to our Flickr Map...

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    Swordscookie

    • 28/Jan/2013 11:48:46

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyelightfilms Not on a site visited and controlled by ladies! Never did like the beggars (Sergeants that is!)

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    Swordscookie

    • 28/Jan/2013 11:53:06

    Following our photograph on Friday from the BlackChurch Inn I take it that that is a brougham in the foreground. The soldiers I cannot identify but that is surely a bandsman with all the frogging on the front of his tunic so they were probably there on official business and got some time to relax.

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    John Spooner

    • 28/Jan/2013 12:08:32

    Another Spot-the-Hatless-Person photo (I'm still searching)

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Jan/2013 12:19:55

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie Control? I wish! :) Thanks for frogging - adding to tags...

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    ccferrie

    • 28/Jan/2013 12:50:44

    Well spotted http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerryward/ - pickpocket caught in the act!

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    eyelightfilms

    • 28/Jan/2013 13:11:51

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie] All I could find was "a subtlety of sergeants-at-law", which is not really the same thing. But still I knew I'd seen "a bellow of sergeants" somewhere before, so I googled it,and it brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to this... February 27, 1904 Swordscookie has coined it.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Jan/2013 13:21:43

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyelightfilms http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie Bellow of Sergeants it is! Both now tagged with it...

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    John Spooner

    • 28/Jan/2013 15:15:56

    I wonder if the gentleman who is holding up his arm on the right is using Solomon's New Binocular Opera, Race and Field Glass, advertised specifically / for 1868 Punchestown Races. Only two guineas, complete with sling case (as seen on the other photo).

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Jan/2013 15:37:44

    Do we think at all that it's a bit too much of a coincidence that either James Simonton or Frederick Holland Mares happened to trek all the way to Punchestown to capture the races in the same year that the Prince of Wales visited? Anything to suggest it was to capture the excitement of the royal visit? The Irish Times (Friday, 17 April 1868) mentions some prominent photographers of the time and their official footing:

    "... Mr Mansfield and Mr Robinson had erected their several photographic cameras at points which promised excellent coup d'oeils of the Royal and ladies' stands, and Mr Chancellor had been favoured with a corner of the enclosure immediately in front of the Royal party... ... A vast number of well-appointed carriages, drags, and waggonettes fronted the Grand Stand, four or five deep. Hospitality was practised on its usual sumptuous scale... ... The card-sharpers were in active operation, losing, in every sense, fabulous sums of money to gentlemen in suspiciously elegant attire..."

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    John Spooner

    • 28/Jan/2013 16:12:10

    Freeman's description of the crowd on the first day of they 1868 meeting says it was more double its normal size.

    In a formidable line in front was a throng, in which some were talking, some eating, some drinking, some resting, some singing, some dancing, here and there, backward and forward, now in a hurry, now a stop, bundles of people hurrying off to this quarter and that, from whence to see the sport. All round, front and rear, the same scene, ever different, uniform in its regularity, pretty in its roughness, great in its number, magnificent in its amalgamation.
    and so on for column after column.

  • profile

    ccferrie

    • 28/Jan/2013 16:15:56

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Not so sure - this painting of the Royal Visit shows a flag on the grandstand - could be artistic licence but you'd think that there would be flags there if there was a royal in attendance. www.luederhniemeyer.com/riding/12288_e.php

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    ccferrie

    • 28/Jan/2013 16:20:36

    More info on the royal visit here with a different painting, also showing a flag.

    The royal visit was also remarkable for the first known photographs of the meeting, and the making of a splendid engraving by T.S. Sanger from a painting by Henry Barraud. It shows the prince, mounted on a white steed, surrounded by the county worthies and forty-six military gentlemen. The Dublin photographer, Mr Chancellor, took the photographs which included scenes of the ordinary people on the outside watching the racing.

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    ccferrie

    • 28/Jan/2013 16:23:08

    But in this print the flag is in a different location

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    ccferrie

    • 28/Jan/2013 16:25:10

    1868 was a notable year at Punchestown, as being the occasion of the visit of their R.H.’s the Prince and Princess of Wales. There was a very large attendance then, but the weather was anything but “royal”. It was in this year that the “Prince of Wales’s Plate” was inaugurated - an event which has remained very popular ever since. The winner of the race in 1868 was Captain Pigott’s Excelsior, with Captain Harford in the saddle: A field of twenty-one started for the initial race, and for the next five years it was well contested, and was won by such good horses as Fertullagh, Rufus, Huntsman, Quickstep, and Shylock.
    Source

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Jan/2013 16:46:23

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] And our photo also there - the roulettey one!

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    John Spooner

    • 28/Jan/2013 16:48:47

    Both the Barraud and the print from the Illustrated london News seem to show a (?) coat of arms* on the railing at the front of the top tier of the stand, above what I assume is the royal box. It is absent from the photograph. *Looks like the PoW's fleur-de-llys here fl

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    DannyM8

    • 28/Jan/2013 16:51:16

    In the book I referred to in the Blackchurch Photo - it says First meeting was 1824 The first stands were built in the 1860's

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    DannyM8

    • 28/Jan/2013 17:06:09

    If this is 1868 (the year of the Royal visit - which I think it is) Thursday April 16th to be exact, punchestown recorded its record attendance of 150,000 an enormous croud. The reception accorded to the Royal party was reported to be cordial in Dublin, hostile in Mallow, dour in Cork and enthusiastic in Belfast!!

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    DannyM8

    • 28/Jan/2013 17:15:45

    More Quotes The first photographs of the Punchestown meeting were taken in 1868 coinciding with the historic visit of the Prince of Wales..... To exploit the demand for images of the royal visit, Chancellor had autotypes made from his stero-photographs which were drawn by Mr J. O'Hea and printed in permanent colours in Scarborough and dedicated to thr Marquis of Drogheda. The above photo is reproduced on page 28 with the following caption, "Spectators in 1868....one of the earliest photographs of the festival...

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    DannyM8

    • 28/Jan/2013 17:23:56

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner He did visit again in 1885!!

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    John Spooner

    • 28/Jan/2013 17:38:30

    Let us not forget that it was Chancellor whose studio was equipped with a 'movable boudoir'.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Jan/2013 18:46:08

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Doubt we'll any of us ever forget Chancellor's 'movable boudoir'! :) 1885 is outside the date range for these stereo pairs http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected], but like you, I'm happier with circa 1868, even if it wasn't for the royal visit... That really is a great book! Have you been in touch with your solicitor yet about adding a codicil to your will?? ;)

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 28/Jan/2013 19:33:12

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland If it was my decision, I would date this photo as 16th April 1868. I went to the my Solicitor (also a fan of this stream) earlier and she agreed to draft the required modifications asap. She did ask about the lack of Dogs and suggested that the bequest could (perhaps should) be made conditional on at least one suitable canine photo being posted each month, I am considering her advice. Via stulti recta in oculis eius qui autem sapiens est audit consilia

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 29/Jan/2013 18:11:35

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I'm sure we're averaging at least one suitable canine photo per month, so that copy of Peerless Punchestown is as good as ours! :D

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    les.hannan

    • 02/May/2015 23:48:55

    As it is Punchestown week, I removed the blemishes from this and the other photograph, and blended them together (roughly, given that they were most likely taken several minutes apart the way cameras worked back then). www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16725596114/

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 03/May/2015 05:07:32

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Les great work, hope you backed a few winners. Mary