Miss Anderson, but which one?

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Where: Waterford, Ireland

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When: 01 September 1907

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Just love this one! Everything seems so glossy and shiny - the horses' coats, their hooves - even the windows are gleaming.

Very smartly turned out in their riding gear are these two young ladies at Grace Dieu Lodge, Clogheen, Co. Waterford. We had this photograph titled as the Misses Anderson, but from all the research below, it looks as if there was only one Miss Anderson connected with Grace Dieu Lodge at this time - Miss Susan Alice Anderson (1881-1941), who would have been about 26 when this photo was taken.

Date: Early September 1907

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 1685

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 81794
anderson andersonfamily missesanderson gracedieu gracedieulodge clogheen ireland munster ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative horses hunting hooves tackle sidesaddle hackingjackets september 1907 1900s aemurray animals susananderson susanaliceanderson thomasanderson thomaswilliamanderson ellencarew ellenanderson bootscraper choker waterford nationallibraryofireland poolephotographiccollection 20thcentury

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    John Spooner

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:21:34

    sorry to kick this off on a sombre note - Times (London) deaths Dec 22nd 1941: ANDERSON Dec 19th 1941, at her residence Grace Dieu Manor, Waterford, SUSAN ALICE, daughter of the late T. W. ANDERSON, DL

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    Swordscookie

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:22:48

    All the hallmarks of privilege and wealth and yet a very handsome pair of pairs. Lovely photograph and an excellent composition.

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    Swordscookie

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:27:21

    From the NUIG site: "In the 1870s Thomas William Anderson of Grace Dieu Lodge, county Waterford, owned 836 acres in county Cork, 600 acres in county Waterford and 1,704 acres in county Kilkenny." and "This house is labelled on the 25-inch Ordnance Survey map of the 1890s as Grace Dieu. In 1848 it was leased by James Anderson from the Carew estate and valued at almost £49. It is still extant and run as a retreat centre by a religious order."

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    John Spooner

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:28:02

    This says that Susan Alice was the only daughter of TW, so who is the other Miss Anderson? A cousin?

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    eyelightfilms

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:36:00

    In the 1901 census, Susan Anderson was 20, born in Kilkenny, and a scholar. Her father was 48, widowed, and listed his occupation as "Interest of Money". Nice one. By the 1911 census he was a magistrate and had remarried. Ellen Carew from Limerick, was the new Mrs. Anderson. Three years married. Susan Alice was still single.

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    John Spooner

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:42:17

    Susan Alice was born in 1881, and her mother ( Constance Agnes Jane Kirwan) died in October 1881 (in childbirth?), Her father Thomas William Anderson married his wife's sister ( Ellen Blanche Carew Blacker Kirwan) on Oct 2nd 1907 - about a month after this picture was taken.

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    Swordscookie

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:44:51

    I found the following on Google from Ancestry.com Dublin, 6 Dec. Births. A few days ago, at Grace Dieu, near Waterford, the wife of James Anderson, Esq; of a son. Susanna, dau. of Christmas Paul M.P., of Paulville, co. Carlow. S. of Alexander A. of Gracedieu; 'Anderson', BIFR. Joshua A. of Gracedieu, James's 4th son. What really amused me though was the following:- "Married. Mr. Thomas Robinson, of Clonegall, in the county of Carlow, aged 90, to the amiable Miss Behane of said place, whose smallest accomplishment is a fortune of £1,000." With a fortune of a grand being amiable is not really necessary but a "nice to have?" But to a 90 year old? Did he reckon that he would live long enough to spend it on her???

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    John Spooner

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:47:47

    The only other Misses Anderson I can find on the immediate family tree are an aunt who would have been 57 at the time of the photo and a cousin who would have been 13.

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    eyelightfilms

    • 18/Dec/2012 09:53:17

    Some more information on Thomas William Anderson. Thomas William Anderson (son of James Anderson and Margaret Carew) was born 26 Jun 1852, and died 05 Sep 1925 in Gracedieu,Waterford. He married (1) Constance Agnes Jane Kirwan on 10 Nov 1879 in London, daughter of Anthony LaTouche Kirwan and Susan Blacker. He married (2) Ellen Blanche Carew Blacker Kirwan on 02 Oct 1907 in London. He is buried at Abbey Churchyard, Kilculliheen, Ferrybank, Waterford.

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    eyelightfilms

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:00:52

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] Constance Agnes Jane Kirwan, or Mrs. Anderson, Susan's mother, died on the 19th August 1881, in Bellevue, Waterford. Her funeral was reported in the Limerick Chronicle of 25th August 1881. Death of Mrs Anderson. Limerick Chronicle 25 Aug 1881. Much regret, the Clone Chronicle says, is felt at the death, at the early age of 23 years of Mrs T W Anderson, of Bellevue, near this city. Constance Agnes Jane Anderson was daughter of the late Very Rev Dean La Touche Kirwan, of Limerick. The coffin, placed on a hearse drawn by four horses, left Bellevue at half-past twelve yesterday (Tuesday) and was followed to the Abbey Churchyard by an immense gathering of relatives and friends of the deceased, the carriages of the principal families of the counties of Kilkenny and Waterford being in attendance. The chief mourners were - Thomas W Anderson, Esq, JP (husband of the deceased), A C Anderson, Esq, J W Kirwan, Esq, and the Misses Kirwan (brother and sisters of the deceased), Paul Anderson, Esq, Dr Anderson, C N Bolton, Esq, Sir R J Paul, Bart, DL,W J Paul Esq, RM, R. Paul, Esq, R F Carew, Esq, DL, R H Anderson, Esq, Rev Canon Blacker, &c. The impressive funeral service was read by the Rev W Gilmor.At the conclusion the Dead March was played on the organ and the remains were borne to the vault by the tenantry (about a 100 of whom were present), who evinced the deepest regret for the loss of one who was loved by all who enjoyed the pleasure of her acquaintance. Burial: 1881, Abbey Churchyard, Kilculliheen, Ferrybank, Waterford.

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    guliolopez

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:06:44

    As swordscookie mentioned it seems like the Sacred Heart Missionaries ran a retreat at the manor for some years, but it closed in 2011, and they sought "caretaker" residents to occupy the place

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    eyelightfilms

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:18:18

    Thomas William Anderson was born on 26th June 1852, and died on 5th September 1925 at age 73. He graduated from Cambridge University, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, England, with a Bachelor of Arts (B.A.). He held the office of High Sheriff of County Waterford in 1885. He held the office of Deputy Lieutenant (D.L.) of County Waterford. He held the office of Justice of the Peace (J.P.) for County Waterford. He held the office of Justice of the Peace (J.P.) for County Kilkenny.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:26:25

    GeoHive OS 25" link

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:28:46

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyelightfilms] His father James with a prize bull (!) in 1863 - www.gettyimages.com.au/detail/news-photo/james-anderson-o...

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    eyelightfilms

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:30:26

    Maybe off on a tangent or two here, but Getty Images have a photo of James Anderson of Grace Dieu Lodge with his prize bull, 'The Rose of the Suir', winner of the 1st Prize at the Waterford Show in 1863, and, on another diversion, I found the grave of a Noel Morris Anderson of Grace Dieu, who died in India in 1940.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:30:58

    The MARC notes at the nli archive describe this as Miss Anderson, Gracediew Lodge, group on horses Perhaps only one of the ladies is Miss Anderson.

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    eyelightfilms

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:31:03

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Doh! Beat me to it.

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    guliolopez

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:41:55

    All important Google Maps link. (With a Bing Maps one just for impartiality).

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    Swordscookie

    • 18/Dec/2012 10:47:54

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Is that TW himself?

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    ccferrie

    • 18/Dec/2012 11:03:50

    Grace Dieu originally built c 1840, remodelled 1892-94 by Albert Edward Murray www.dia.ie/works/view/12211 It was featured in the Irish Builder at the time of the remodelling sources.nli.ie/Record/PS_UR_072581

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    DannyM8

    • 18/Dec/2012 11:09:30

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie T. W. looking out the gleaming window at the two wans on the horses, and Thinking.......... http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_public_library/5635031698/

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    ccferrie

    • 18/Dec/2012 11:10:37

    Here's a contemporary photo of the same part of the building

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    eyelightfilms

    • 18/Dec/2012 11:29:23

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Something not quite right about the look of the house in the recent photo. That paint job doesn't work for a start. Are those PVC windows? There really should be in a darker colour.

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    Swordscookie

    • 18/Dec/2012 11:42:14

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] TW was a man after your own heart Danny. Just to add a little colour to the proceedings what do you think he would have said about this? http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4596239865/

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    eyelightfilms

    • 18/Dec/2012 11:53:43

    Shameless self-promotion. My grandmother in a similar outfit to Miss Anderson. Untitled

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    ccferrie

    • 18/Dec/2012 12:53:39

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyelightfilms They are PVC windows - the conservatory add-on is also more recent. I'm not sure the pebble-dash finish would have been there originally and you're right, the colours are all wrong.

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    blackpoolbeach

    • 18/Dec/2012 13:18:15

    The choker fashion was inspired by Princess Alexandra, later Queen Alexandra. "She hid a small scar on her neck, which was likely the result of a childhood operation, by wearing choker necklaces and high necklines, setting fashions which were adopted for fifty years." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_of_Denmark

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 18/Dec/2012 13:59:07

    Didn't mean to mislead with the "Misses Anderson", but that's how this one was titled in our Power and Privilege photographic exhibition a couple of years back. I had assumed (perhaps wrongly) that further research had been done showing that they were both Andersons...

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    DannyM8

    • 18/Dec/2012 14:29:43

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Niall - I see on the OSI 25 that the house has an associated Reservoir, tank, pump and a hydraulic ram. What would this be used for?

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    Frank Fullard

    • 18/Dec/2012 14:30:31

    Delightful reminder of times gone by!

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    Niall McAuley

    • 18/Dec/2012 15:06:39

    A hydraulic ram is a machine with no moving parts, excepting two working valves and sometimes one air valve, and is used for raising a portion of the water which works it to a height, such as from a valley to a cistern in a house or a reservoir or water tower in some elevated position. Apparently.

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    Swordscookie

    • 18/Dec/2012 15:25:32

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley I remember just such a ram outiside the house that stood where Sean Quinn built his Slieve Russel hotel between Belturbet and Ballyconnell in Co. Cavan. The house there was owned by Arthur Ennis the seed and feed merchants and that ram worked away there for years filling a tank from a well/spring down below it!

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    Angelo Nori

    • 18/Dec/2012 15:53:19

    Very nice !!

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    Swordscookie

    • 18/Dec/2012 16:28:44

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Just sorry there was no dog in these either:-(

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    DannyM8

    • 18/Dec/2012 17:14:30

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie It is beyond a joke now...... "She who passes very quickly by any photograph of a dog in the Archive" or http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland for short is beginning to get to me. If there is no dog within the next 24 hours further action will be taken..... http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/411807706/

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Dec/2012 09:03:32

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] No dogs until the New Year!

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    DannyM8

    • 19/Dec/2012 09:29:57

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Not Happy

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    Swordscookie

    • 19/Dec/2012 09:35:53

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Not fair!

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    blackpoolbeach

    • 19/Dec/2012 11:32:59

    Google Translation Hydraulic Ram = Water Goat

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    Swordscookie

    • 19/Dec/2012 12:19:46

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackpoolbeach Google doesn't know its sheep from goats then;-)

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    desmondg47

    • 09/Jan/2013 19:30:33

    As far as I know, the hydraulic ram on Anderson's land is part of the mill race of Ballindud which operates the water wheel owned by the griffin Family there. Its one of the oldest mill races in the country and the researches of the late Dr Niall Byrne showed that it the property in early mediaeval times of the Knights Templar or Hospitallers.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Jan/2013 20:45:18

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyelightfilms Hold on, chaps! Just spotted some contradictions in your information. We have a couple of death dates for Susan's mother, Constance: August and October 1881, and a birth date from Ancestry of 6 December. Whichever month Constance sadly died, Susan could not have been born on 6 December...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Jan/2013 20:46:32

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/frankfullard It is indeed, Frank.

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    fainomenon

    • 10/Mar/2016 10:51:11

    Miss Anderson is on the left

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    Niall McAuley

    • 03/Apr/2017 09:28:34

    This archive shot is of Miss Anderson and her father on horseback - I think she is the one on our right in this image (with the dark collar on her jacket).

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 01/Oct/2017 08:15:11

    I have just added this photo to our 50,000+ Views album. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/sets/72157651136879037