Sedes Sapientiae or Seat of Wisdom on Baggot Street, Dublin

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Where: Dublin, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1890

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Was a bit perplexed as to where exactly this photo might have been taken, as this building and lovely terrace are no longer with us. Thanks to some of our usual suspects, we now know that this was the Sisters of Mercy run Sedes Sapientiae (Girls') Teacher Training College, that much later morphed into Carysfort Teacher Training College in Blackrock.

P.S. Check out the nearest gas lamp. It has a little metalworked 2225 on it!

Date: 1890?? Can that gaslight number help us here?

NLI Ref.: L_ROY_01200

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 29935
college baggotstreet dublin ireland leinster laundry sheets gaslamps 2225 blinds laneway 1890 robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection glassnegative eastjamesstreet herbertstreet adelaideplace catherinemcauley baggotstreetconvent sistersofmercy sedessapientiae seatofwisdom teachertrainingcollege lowerbaggotstreet johnlrobinson ourladyofmercycollege nationallibraryofireland

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  • profile

    eyelightfilms

    • 05/Jul/2012 08:48:51

    That quite a door for a back door, but surely they wouldn't hang the sheets out in front either. Just had a look up Baggot St. on Google Maps but didn't see a roof like that anywhere. Perhaps it was demolished to build some ugly office block.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Jul/2012 08:53:56

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyelightfilms If it is Baggot Street, I would have plumped for Lower (the end closest to Stephen's Green), but that would really mean the area where Bank of Ireland head office is. Most of the Georgian fabric has miraculously survived down that end. Baggot Street Hospital dominates one side of Upper Baggot Street, and on the facing side, don't think there was room for a terrace of houses between Baggot St. and Fleming's Place/Burlington Road... Where's Niall and his OSI maps when you need him?

  • profile

    eyelightfilms

    • 05/Jul/2012 09:04:25

    Think I've found it on an OS map, but have not yet figured out how to link to that spot. Yes, Lower Baggot St, but it has been demolished. Between East James St. and Herbert St, there was a small lane called Adelaide Place. That's it on the lower left with the gas lamps. Approx here. Oh wait. Try this OS map link.

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 05/Jul/2012 09:08:39

    Think This Might be it or at least half of it link text In the early 1830s Catherine McAuley started training courses in the Baggot Street Convent to qualify able students who wished to become governesses or teachers in various schools throughout Ireland. When the principle of denominational training was accepted, the ‘Sedes Sapientiae’ (Seat of Wisdom) Training School in Baggot Street was recognised as a Teacher Training college for girls in 1883 and later transferred to Carysfort Training College, Blackrock, Dublin. Until then only 27% of Catholic teachers and 52% of Protestant teachers had graduated from training colleges.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Jul/2012 09:42:02

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]]'s building looks exactly right, and [http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyelightfilms] has the location. In this Google image of the school that stands there now, I see what looks like a graveyard, but no such thing is marked on any map I can find The school is Scoil Chaitríona CBS primary school..

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 05/Jul/2012 09:48:46

    Sedes Sapientiae teacher training college - Very ELUSIVE

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    economic quiet

    • 05/Jul/2012 09:57:32

    The craftmanship here is great, unlike the mass-produced buildings of today.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Jul/2012 10:11:56

    Catherine McAuley (no relation :) is buried somewhere at the convent: Mercy World

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    DannyM8

    • 05/Jul/2012 11:06:21

    The Terrace of houses on the left with the gas lamps were in Adelaide Place. Off Baggot-street, Lower. Following from Dublin Street Directory 1862 P. St. Peter.South Dock W.City. Gate-houseT. Bridges, shoemak. 2l 1 Burke, Mr. James, 15l. l = Pounds rateable valuation 2 Davis, David, esq. 15l. 2 Dowling, Robert, esq. 3 Dyas, Mr. John, 15l. 4 Brangan, Miss Ellen, dressmkr. 15l. 5 Bryen, Mr. William, 15l. 6 Monks, Wm, Adelaide cottage, 11l.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Jul/2012 11:16:57

    Youse are all fablis! Thanks for solving another mystery... Anyone know anything about the 2225 numbering on the lamp? And what about a date? The second "wing" isn't on [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]]'s lovely 1879 sketch from Archiseek...

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Jul/2012 11:37:16

    Also would Sirs and Madams like an easy or a hard Fergus O'Connor "unknown location" shot tomorrow?

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Jul/2012 11:45:46

    While searching the OS 25" map near baggot street, I came across this: between Baggot Street and Burlington lane, a Laundry attached to an Asylum for Penitent Females Shiver.

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 05/Jul/2012 11:59:17

    Have never seen so little information about a subject on the WWW. Will have to go to the Library sometime and actually look at a book!!!!!

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Jul/2012 12:00:07

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Shiver, indeed! :(

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Jul/2012 12:01:54

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Ooooh, controversial - using an actual book!

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Jul/2012 12:29:37

    You can actually see that http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]'s sketch is of half the main building, from the steps and door to the right. The brick to the left looks a slightly different colour, from whenever it was extended.

  • profile

    archiseek

    • 05/Jul/2012 14:19:13

    Section to the left is clearly a later extension. Possibly the one mentioned in The Irish Builder in his Obituary in Building News 67, 19 Oct 1894, 554 as N0.64 Lower Baggot St., or it may have been extended after his death by his practice in the same style. The architect John L. Robinson made a good living from The Mercy Sisters - having done the Brickfield Lane, Carysfort, and Dun Laoghaire convents as well. His commissions were chiefly for Catholic churches and religious houses in the Dublin area, though he also did some commercial and domestic work.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 05/Jul/2012 17:18:20

    I bet it was a Monday due to the laundry.

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    DannyM8

    • 05/Jul/2012 18:13:25

    In 1901 per the census this college was called Our Lady of Mercy College, there seems to be 154 young ladies between the ages of 19 to 26 from all over the country. See 1901 Census In 1901 there are 4 seperate Sister of Mercy Buildings as follows Girls Tranining home and dwelling, R.C. Convent, Ladies Training College and Servants training home. In 1911 there are only 2 buildings noted, Boarding School Private dwelling (which seems to equate to the girls training home above (same head of family in both Sarah Manning) and a Convent / Boarding school see Building report for 1901 1911 So it looks like our Training College closed between 1901 and 1911, but Carysfort Training College in 1877 was set up as a training college for Catholic girls who wished to become teachers. The college was founded and run by the Sisters of Mercy. The college developed further when ‘Sedes Sapientiae’ (Seat of Wisdom) Training School for girls (a recognised Teacher Training college) of Catherine McAuley Baggot Street moved to Carysfort in Blackrock. Which suggests two training colleges for the period 1877 to between 1901 and 1911? Looking at the number of rooms in the different buildings on the campus from 1901 to 1911 it is possible that our building was gone prior to 1911, which may explain the absence of any later images????? Comments please..

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Jul/2012 18:19:36

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/archiseek Thanks for that! So until we get more information, we're as well off sticking with a speculative date of 1890 then...

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    DannyM8

    • 05/Jul/2012 19:19:44

    Interesting Inspectors report on the College from 1901

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Jul/2012 19:44:00

    From the Scoil Chaitriona website linked above, the CBS westland row merged with a school run by the Mercy nuns on the Baggot street site in 1986, so I'd say the Mercy nuns had a school for girls there from 1903 when the teacher training moved until 1986. The current modern building presumably replaced this one, but I don't know when, maybe 1986, maybe before.

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 05/Jul/2012 20:01:40

    Looks Like Caresford only started in 1903 and the 1877 date was the start of this college, a bit like distilleries in ireland!! see Inspectors report 1903-4

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Jul/2012 20:42:15

    We have a book in Library Towers that looks promising. Here's a quote from the book quoted on scoilnet:

    ... Can well understand the eagerness for admission. Young women come up from all parts of Ireland, rough and unkempt, are put into the civilising mill: books, baths, infinite tidiness and order and the friendly guidance and sympathy of the Reverend Mother and Sisters. I must say these women please me vastly. (Viscount Morley, 1894)
    I'll have a look at in the morning. Hopefully, it might mention a date for the addition of the second wing onto the building, or something else useful...

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 06/Jul/2012 02:18:06

    Sedes Sapientiae or Seat of Wisdom, for the Mother of God, ie Mary. Should have known that! Father forgive us! Can someone on here take confession?