Walsh's Royal Mail and Day Car
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Where: Sligo, Ireland
Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.
When: 01 January 1885
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Not even room for a little 'un on this packed day car in Sligo town. Destinations advertised outside Walsh's were Ballina, Bundoran, Enniskillen, Ballyshannon and Roscommon.
Thanks to John Spooner, we now know this photo was taken on Corcoran's Mall in Sligo and he found great info on Walsh's schedules from Slater's 1870 directory for Sligo:
"To BALLINA, from Corcoran's Mall, a Mail Car, every morning at fifty-five minutes past six, and a Van at halfpast two afternoon.
To BALLYSHANNON, from Corcoran's Mall, a Mail Car, every morning at six; also a Day Car at twenty minutes past two afternoon, during summer months only.
To ENNISKILLEN, Cars leave WALSH'S Office, Corcoran's Mall, every day (Sunday excepted) at seven in the morning." See comments below for how John worked out that the trip from Sligo to Ballyshannon worked out at an average of 6.75 mph!
Date: 1880s?
NLI Ref.: L_CAB_02021
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 106922
Thanks to John Spooner, we now know this photo was taken on Corcoran's Mall in Sligo and he found great info on Walsh's schedules from Slater's 1870 directory for Sligo:
"To BALLINA, from Corcoran's Mall, a Mail Car, every morning at fifty-five minutes past six, and a Van at halfpast two afternoon.
To BALLYSHANNON, from Corcoran's Mall, a Mail Car, every morning at six; also a Day Car at twenty minutes past two afternoon, during summer months only.
To ENNISKILLEN, Cars leave WALSH'S Office, Corcoran's Mall, every day (Sunday excepted) at seven in the morning." See comments below for how John worked out that the trip from Sligo to Ballyshannon worked out at an average of 6.75 mph!
Date: 1880s?
NLI Ref.: L_CAB_02021
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 106922
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Swordscookie
Halle-flippin-lujah she's back. I've been like a junkie all week suffering withdrawal symptoms. Believe me "Cold Turkey" is not a nice state to be in. Welcome back Carol and I hope thats the end of the leave for this year?
Swordscookie
There's an awful lot of weight at the rear of that car and that gentleman in particular. A lot of it is behind the back axle and it could make life interesting going up a steep hill. Imagine travelling on that in a downpour?
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie Lovely to be back! But afraid not on the leave front. Don't know how to break this to you gently, so you'll have to be a brave soldier - I'm going away again next week (feast or famine!)... But then I'll be around for ages, no flitting off on tourist cars for me! Though if this picture was taken today, the poor tourists would still be huddling in blankets. Brrrr and boooo to the arctic winds!
Michiel2005
Crowded buses even then.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/govert1970 Wonder if it was the same back then - that you waited for ages and then two came along at once?
ClickKen04
Which one was the Health and Safety officer ? ;) The movement of the gentlemen is well recorded on the right hand side in comparison to the people on the Coach!
eyelightfilms
Does not seem like a very suitable vehicle for the Irish climate. Presumably there was some sort of tarp to go over the top in rain. Unusual hat on the large man at rear, Quite a high top hat behind him. One other top hat and then are those derbys, cokes or bowler hats? Or something else? They all have very undulating brims for bowlers or cokes.
dorameulman
The men and women are wearing some fancy looking hats they must be going to church :)
DannyM8
hope you had a great break........ welcome back.
known order
The distance from Sligo to Enniskillen is not much under 40 miles. I don't know how fast that car and horses would go (5 or 6 mph ?). But it's no wonder they needed the blankets.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photoken04 Yes, the forward row of ladies and gentlemen were very definitely posing without moving a muscle.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eyelightfilms Anything not covered and with underfloor heating doesn't seem suitable for an Irish climate! I wonder are you right about the tarp - must have been a bit grim under it in driving rain. And well spotted on the hat. Maybe he'd been "out foreign"? Perhaps the other "undulating brims" can help us date this one (if it was a short-lived fashion)?
John Spooner
Here's the section 'Coach and Cars' from Slater's Directory Sligo 1870. To BALLINA, from Corcoran's Mall, a Mail Car, every morning at fifty-five minutes past six, and a Van at halfpast two afternoon. To BALLYSHANNON, from Corcoran's Mall, a Mail Car, every morning at six; also a Day Car at twenty minutes past two afternoon, during summer months only. To ENNISKILLEN, Cars leave WALSH'S Office, Corcoran's Mall, every day (Sunday excepted) at seven in the morning.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks very much. Fighting fit after the break.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/tj666] 36 miles from Sligo to Enniskillen according to distance calculator...
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner That's brilliant, John! And apparently Corcoran's Mall is no more (as a name anyway). Renamed John F. Kennedy Parade after JFK was assassinated... OSI maps online are down because of an issue, but we might be able to get exact location when they're back up again. And also, was there any mention of Bundoran? Ballina, Ballyshannon and Enniskillen being in the 1870 directory, but not Bundoran might help us date this one...
Niall McAuley
Welcome back ! Have a Streetview.
John Spooner
Corcoran's Mall is now John F Kennedy parade Walsh's Office is now Toff's Nite Club The building on the right (with the distinctive windows - 'dummy' ones at the top and arched ones on the ground floor) is now The Embassy Wine Bar and Grill Google Streetview
John Spooner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Pipped at the post!
John Spooner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland No mention of Bundoran
John Spooner
An advert in Freeman's in June 1869 for the Midland Great Western Railway, and their cheap tours of the Western Highlands and Connemara, includes this From Ballina, per Public Long Car, twice a day to Sligo, 37 miles, fare 5s. A similar advert in July 1871 has Walsh's Mail Car to Ballyshannon, via Dundruff, Grange, Cliffoney, Tullaghan and Bundoran, leaves at 6.0 a.m. and arrives at Ballyshannon at 10.0 a.m. Returns from Ballyshannon at 3.15, Bundoran at 3.45, and arrives at Sligo at 7.30 p.m. in time for Mail Train to Dublin. So the Ballyshannon service went via Bundoran. http://www.flickr.com/photos/tj666 Sligo -> Ballyshannon = 27 miles in 4 hours, so that's an average speed of 6.75mph, although moving average slightly more, as the 4 hrs includes stops, and the return journey slightly slower (tired horses?)
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley No, it's definitely Ballyshannon, not Ballyvaughan as on your note. But Roscommon is a good fit given the Sligo starting point. And thank you for the Street View!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner http://www.flickr.com/photos/tj666 And presumably mph depended on the girth of passengers, weight of luggage and volume of mail?
Joefuz
Corcoran's Mall on the old OSI maps - maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,569394,835965,7,9 John F Kennedy Parade today. - maps.google.ie/maps?q=54.271452,-8.469731&layer=c&... It's odd to compare old map and new. Where Rockwood Parade is now, in the old days we had "intercepting sewers". I wonder what they were intercepting?
martindevlin
('Though if this picture was taken today, the poor tourists would still be huddling in blankets. Brrrr and boooo to the arctic winds!' ) They still are on the Jaunting Cars in Killarney! and the looks on their faces when the jarvey tells them 'Sure it's a grand mild day'
mikescottnz
Great picture.
BeachcomberAustralia
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] [http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] [http://www.flickr.com/photos/joefuz] Thanks for the street views; I was completely lost in Sligo trying to find the buildings, and gave up. It is great to have a sticky-beak around these old photos' locations. Those 'blind' windows - did the Window Tax apply in 19th century Ireland too?
mikescottnz
Scotland endured the English window tax not sure Ireland was subjected to that as well. www.irishabroad.com/yourroots/genealogy/names/anglonorman... Walsh/Welsh/Welch is the commonest modern Irish surname of Anglo-Norman origin, the fourth or fifth commonest surname in Ireland today. The South Welsh colony was the nearest part of the Angevin Kingdom to Ireland, and accordingly a disproportionately large element of the Irish settler population had geographic Welsh origins. Along with the Welsh based Normans and Flemings came many ethnic (Celtic) Welsh, usually, though not by any means exclusively, among the lower orders of the immigrants. Most of these men were known in French, the language of law and property, simply as ‘the Welshman’, le Walys. This has become Wallace in Scotland but Walsh et al in Ireland. In every part of Ireland settled by the newcomers we find people called le Walys, and the Walshs of today must descend from dozens, if not hundreds, of individual Welshmen. In County Cork alone a cursory glance at records of the fourteenth century indicate the existence of at least twenty distinct families of le Walys.
BeachcomberAustralia
John Spooner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia http://www.flickr.com/photos/celtico WIndow Tax - judging from the letters to the editor in Freeman's Journal, notices of public meetings in Dublin campaigning for its abolition in Ireland, and petitions to parliament for its abolition in Ireland, I'd guess Ireland was subject to window tax.
Gerry Ward
Is the fifth destination Rossnowlagh?
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerryward Could be, Gerry. I favoured Roscommon because it's close to Sligo, but Rossnowlagh isn't too far away from Sligo either...
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] [http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] [http://www.flickr.com/photos/celtico] Always heard that the window tax was one of the reasons why Irish cottages had so few and such tiny windows.
Gerry Ward
... it looks like Ross...!
BeachcomberAustralia
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland I am not sure of the intricate details of the Window Tax in Ireland, but in England merchant and upper classes paid most. It should not have affected cottages. "People who were exempt from paying church or poor rates, for reasons of poverty, were exempt from the window tax." (from Wiki article above). Or where there were less than 7 windows (hence half-doors). The small cottage windows were maybe more the result of building materials available, particularly the high cost of glass, and the necessity of retaining heat. Those weren't the days!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerryward Gerry, so sorry! I meant to check the original image today to see if you're right about Ross... - will try to do it tomorrow.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Absolutely bowing to your superior knowledge of the Window Tax! :)
mikescottnz
Aggrrhhh cyber advertising in a photo site !
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/celtico That "user" now well and truly blocked!
BeachcomberAustralia
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland I dobbed him/her in to Flickr as "spam-o-rama" - it seems to work. The Commons photos seem to attract a lot of spam-o-rama-erers, like the idjot writing dreadful limericks above. Block me!
victor98_2001
best shot
Howard33
People today complain about having to ride the bus.
excellentzebu1050
Brilliant really Brilliant
TEXASJOHN
Is it the day coach to Ballyshannon?
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Don't know where this one was bound. Robert French dubbed it a "tourist car".
kristavanichinnsamy
Now Louking /// Very interesting this image. great work.
deimadove
whhy the hell do u put up old photo
mikescottnz
DD , this is originally a real photography place , not just a photo collection or interest site. In addition because its documenting history and people like yourself, may 'favourite' them. Now owned by Yahoo this site precedes all the Yahoo changes that make it seem like more typical social media sites .Welcome ,take your own pictures, you don't have be an other anon' person here.
vinura_d
Hmmm... Interesting.
mambo1935
grace!
fascinated by everything
most have had better weather back then
smgucijf27
L'automobile non era ancora stata inventata?
Niall McAuley
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] We think this was the 1880s, so no automobiles yet, but the word Car was used for a horse drawn vehicle before that, like a jaunting car, a side car or an outside car.
smgucijf27
Thanks for the answer Niall.
Niall McAuley
L_CAB_02020 next door in the catalogue is also Sligo and likely 1872-76 per the comments on this one:
Niall McAuley
L_CAB_2019 is Sligo, from 1878 or later (it's the courthouse), so these are not taken at the same time.