July 24, 1922

Download this image

More from this collection

Related by Where

Research Help!

Where: Limerick, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 24 July 1922

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
National Army troops at the South Western Front during the Irish Civil War.

We've discovered (mostly through all of your efforts here on Flickr) that some of our W.D. Hogan collection dates are not as secure as we thought, so thanks to sbreathnach for giving us a location for this one at the Ordnance Barracks, Mulgrave Street, Limerick and a date of Friday 21st or Saturday 22nd July 1922!

Date: Friday 21 or Saturday, 22 July 1922

NLI Ref.: HOG123

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 28111
nationalarmy soldiers irishcivilwar july 1922 1920s hogancollection twenties southwesternfront ireland civilwar ordnancebarracks mulgraveroad limerick munster tinbath fire nationallibraryofireland locationidentified dateestablished williamdavidhogan wdhogan

Add Tags
  • profile

    Fotoamateur62

    • 24/Jul/2011 12:38:14

    very interesting -- Seen on your photo stream. ( ?² )

  • profile

    let‘s go

    • 28/Jul/2011 01:28:17

    old picture,recall of the past time

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 24/Jul/2012 13:29:34

    It will be very hard to tell from the lack of identifiable personnel or topographical features. There was a good bit of activity in the war at that time with a lot of it centred in Kerry around Tralee and in Cork. The lads are at least going to have a hot bath?

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 24/Jul/2012 13:35:41

    When you run along the line of these shots you will find the one that Sbreathnach confirmed as being taken in Bruff Co. Limerick around that time (the other one with the Pathe news strip of the prisoner was also there) it might be that it was taken in that part of Limerick in the Free Staters drive to Kilmallock as he said!

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 24/Jul/2012 13:43:18

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie I have to go back over a lot of comments and will catch up with Sbreathnach hopefully...

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 24/Jul/2012 14:05:55

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] This one Carol, you only responded to him this week. www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6417469255/

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 24/Jul/2012 14:20:26

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie Ah here, my memory is not that bad! But SB commented on others as well and I never really got a chance to reply... (You all have me wore out, so you do!)

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 24/Jul/2012 14:30:26

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Could we have uncovered a wee bit of Civil War fraud between these shots? The man in civilian clothes is remarkably similar to the prisoner from the the newsreel and the shot above. There may have been a very good reason for his being relaxed after capture and the smiles on his captors faces if he was used to dupe the poor old Brits of the Pathe corporation?

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 24/Jul/2012 14:35:27

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie Hmmmmm! I'm not seeing it, but that doesn't mean you're not right. And it would make a fantastic story which I always find irrestistible. I can well believe that such shenanigans went on - "First casualty of war is truth"... I've uploaded higher res of the "prisoner" one to see what ye make of it.

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 24/Jul/2012 14:44:03

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland He has the boots and leggings with the jodphurs similar to those worn by the rest of the troops but he is wearing a civvie jacket, shirt, tie and cap. Now a prisoner being taken out from a battle would be hardly likely to have a tie on and if he had his captors would quickly take it off him lest he garrote a guard. It is a bit of a long shot but I suspect that we might have a chancer at work here.

  • profile

    mogey

    • 24/Jul/2012 22:34:46

    Could it be inside an old fort? It reminded me of the inside of Charlesfort in Kinsale with what looks like battlements at the top maps.google.com/maps?q=Kinsale,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=...

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 25/Jul/2012 10:04:30

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mogey I see where you're going. Perhaps. Keeping a completely open mind on this one, so all suggestions are welcome...

  • profile

    sbreathnach

    • 26/Jul/2012 00:02:44

    A longish shot but The Ordnance/Artillery barracks, Mulgrave St, Limerick? Evacuated and Burnt by the Anti-treaty forces on the night of the 21st July 1922 I think looted by Locals the following morning before being occupied by pro treaty forces.The yard is quite substantial in size indicating possibly a barracks square, timber frame possibly additional accommodation hut for British troops during the war of independence, there were several of these built on the square in the ordnance barracks. The timber frame doesn't look to be burnt but the reason only a frame and chicken wire remains maybe the looting of the galvanised or timber cladding from it? Low buildings in the rear MAY correspond with the low buildings against the perimeter of the barracks wall such as saddlers/stores/stables. Cart looks to be a ladder for escaping high floors in the event of a fire, barracks had 3 floors in the accommodation and hospital blocks cant get a modern picture I'm afraid, most of it is demolished or out of bounds.. This is a pic from 1893 I reckon the above was taken to the right out of screen where the stables and smaller workshops were located.http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7646890990/in/photostream/lightbox/ I'm aware this doesnt show the exact area its just to give an example of the space in question. Ref Hogan and posed/staged pictures he did use artistic license to create "action" shots www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6233259813/in/set-7215762... Looks slightly convincing except thats there are no targets only the horizon!! The landings didn't come under any fire until close to the shores of Cork. Other examples(They are at home will upload in a few weeks) include "firing" an 18 pounder from the deck and a section deployed along a wall with highly polished gaiters

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 26/Jul/2012 15:22:04

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That's where "Morgan McMahons" timber yard was for many years at the back of the St. Johns Pavilion where I went to my first dance. I used to go in there when I worked for a builders and always wondered at the history of the place. You've whetted my appetite and I'll have to follow up on it now!

  • profile

    sbreathnach

    • 27/Jul/2012 21:23:41

    its a terrible quality pic will endeavour to get a better one but its a different angle, would put money on this being the ordnance barracks www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7658447828/in/photostream Barracks was burnt on the night of 20th of July, this appeared in the paper on the 24th taken 21st/22nd

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2012 12:21:32

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Think you're dead right, and thanks again for all the help! Found this photo on page 3 of the Irish Independent of Monday, 24 July 1922. Caption read: "Happy heroes - National troops enjoying themselves around an improvised fire in an old tin bath." And can you confirm for us - Ordnance Barracks = New Barracks (as this scene was called in the Indo)? p.s. have taken location from your 1893 photo p.p.s. from your knowledge, which would you say is more likely - Friday 21st or Saturday 22nd??

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 30/Jul/2012 14:06:21

    I can't speak with the depth of certainty of SB but as far as I am aware the existing barracks in Limerick now known as Sarsfields Barracks was known as the "New" Barracks. When I was growing up this was a timber yard with lots of building materials stored there but even then you could tell that it had been a military establishment and that it had contained horses.

  • profile

    sbreathnach

    • 30/Jul/2012 16:11:53

    Your dead right Swords. ordnance not equal to new barracks, New barracks now sarsfield, I'll rob a map online to show you exactly, 2 of 4 barracks in Limerick; Castle, Strand (formerly the house of industry), ordnance(or sometimes referred to as artillery) and new(now Sarsfield). Re. Fri 21st vs Sat 22nd, pj ryan in "fourth siege of Limerick" speaks of the pro treaty not maintaining contact with the anti treaty in their retreat and describes a "leisurely" occupancy of former positions. I would say friday, the only reason being the developing time for the picture to be published on the 24th but thats not much to go on... Have locs for a few more pics if interested, including google street views of them. Using the callcards from your website HOG108/HOG128 Bishop's Palace Henry street Limerick google street to follow HOG 109 Bruff www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7659365560/in/photostream HOG111 HOG19 Bruff HOG12 Cruises royal hotel limerick HOG31 www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6652701421/in/set-7215762... HOG 54 Pier cork where landing occurred HOG59 New barracks/sarsfield pics to follow HOG 63 Cathal Brugha barracks HOG96 video to follow HOG98 Athlunkard Bridge Limerick pro treaty barricade pictures to follow HOG135 I reposted this one William st Limerick www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7658586708/in/photostream

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Jul/2012 16:34:32

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] So, for example, HOG 111 = Bruff! Here's our photo, and here's current Street View... That is fantastic! It'll take me a while to get a chance to change the catalogue records (pretty busy few days this week, but absolutely interested!!! And the Google Street Views are brilliant, because I can automatically load the map co-ordinate into our catalogue for Map View...

  • profile

    sbreathnach

    • 02/Aug/2012 23:25:16

    much better quality www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7701000402/in/photostream

  • profile

    sbreathnach

    • 11/Aug/2012 22:34:19

    was wrong found the spot today in front of officers stables in new barracks photo to follow

  • profile

    sbreathnach

    • 05/Dec/2012 13:58:16

    Today m.flickr.com/#/photos/[email protected]/8247414378/

  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 05/Dec/2012 15:30:00

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That link doesn't seem to work?

  • profile

    sbreathnach

    • 05/Dec/2012 18:00:21

    working off phone. its the newest pic on my photo steam