Belfast Indemnity Bill

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Where: Unknown

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When: 01 January 1864

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We had a great mixum gatherum of posters from 1968 yesterday. Today, we have just one poster from around 100 years earlier.

What do we know about the Belfast Indemnity Bill? And what can we find out about this building?

Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton

Collection: Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 1860-1883 1864-65

NLI Ref: STP_0455

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 13618
ioniccolumns portico belfastindemnitybill johnfortunelawrence williamlawrence frederickhollandmares jamessimonton stereopairsphotographcollection nineteenthcentury glassnegatives stereographicnegative belfast antrim ulster ireland northernireland nationallibraryofireland posters presbyterianchurch alfredstreet locationidentified limerickbybeachcomber

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  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 19/Sep/2023 07:40:22

    From Trove, 22 Sep 1865: Sir H. Cairns reviewed his Parliamentary policy and career, condemning in strong terms the Palmerston Government. He referred to the Belfast Indemnity Bill, and said Mr. Gladstone, Sir Peel, and other Ministers were against it, and if it had been thrown out the town would still be saddled with the Chancery suit I think this speech is from 12th July 1865, in Belfast.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 19/Sep/2023 07:58:30

    There seem to have been a lot of riots in Belfast around that time, and the Belfast Police were abolished and replaced by the RIC.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 19/Sep/2023 08:01:49

    The building looks like a courthouse to me. Not sure why the Archive thinks it is in Belfast, other than the poster, which could be a headline anywhere.

  • profile

    Quite Adept

    • 19/Sep/2023 08:21:31

    This is the Presbyterian Church on Alfred St, Belfast www.archiseek.com/2016/1837-presbyterian-church-alfred-st...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Sep/2023 08:27:41

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/20451498@N00/ Oh, thank you for that identification!

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 19/Sep/2023 08:37:14

    Not used as a church after 1872 according to archiseek.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Sep/2023 08:46:45

    Suck Diesel Yes, I wonder why it was so short-lived, and why the congregation moved on...

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    suckindeesel

    • 19/Sep/2023 08:59:10

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/47290943@N03/] Might be something here youtu.be/K4NrRFPwr7o?si=slYtsDezP0JTe-xS but just going out the door, so will view later

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Sep/2023 09:06:19

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04/ Ditto! :D

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 19/Sep/2023 09:18:24

    I see it on an unlinkable PRONI historical map, 2nd edition 1846-62. The site is a car park now: Streetview

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 19/Sep/2023 09:37:59

    Surprised I can't find anything on the Belfast Indemnity Bill

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Sep/2023 09:58:17

    For what it's worth, most of the hits for the phrase "Belfast Indemnity Bill" in the BNA are in 1858, and most of them are in May (82 in May and 47 for the other months combined)

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Sep/2023 10:18:59

    Helpfully, the Cork Daily Herald realised that its readers would have heard of the bill but not understand what all the fuss was about, so printed an Idiot's Guide with a brief history of the issues. As I understand it, the Belfast council had borrowed large sums of money, mostly to provide gas to the city, but it turned out not to be enough, so they borrowed more and more until they couldn't borrow any more. They also couldn't raise rates any more, and couldn't pay back the loans. So lenders only security was the signatures of the councillors. So the councillors sought indemnity and it all became very political. That's how I understand it, probably missing all sorts of relevant details and nuances, and doesn't say how it all ended

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Sep/2023 10:27:44

    Another Belfast Indemnity Bill was submitted in July 1864 (causing a small peak in the BNA hits)

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Sep/2023 10:54:17

    John Spooner Thank you very much for so succinctly giving us the meat of the Indemnity Bill matter!

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    suckindeesel

    • 19/Sep/2023 12:18:50

    The congregation moved house to a more affluent area in Fitzroy Ave. The church was then used for office space, and lastly by Lawrie Bros., Ltd., motor accessory factors, 7 Alfred Street. It was demolished in the 1960s. Hard to believe that this is the same building in the 1950s, stripped of its portico. Note one of the surviving gate pillars. https://flic.kr/p/2p3ZYSZ

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Sep/2023 12:23:21

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 That is a remarkable transformation.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 19/Sep/2023 12:39:17

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 You can still see the distinctive quoins and pilasters of the original.

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    suckindeesel

    • 19/Sep/2023 12:46:37

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/47290943@N03/ They seemed to have moved around a lot Here’s the list from that YouTube talk • Second Rosemary – 1707 • Third Rosemary – 1721 • Donegall Street - 1791 • Linenhall Street Covenanters – 1808 • Alfred Place – 1819 • Fisherwick Place – 1823 • College Street South – 1832 • Alfred Street – 1837 • Linenhall Street – 1839 • York Street Non-subscribing - 1840 • College Square North – 1843 • Great Georges Street – 1843 • Academy Street - 1861

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Sep/2023 12:48:25

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 Excellent, thank you.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Sep/2023 13:39:57

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley So because of the Indemnity Bill poster, would be safe enough to assume 1864-ish/1865-ish?

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Sep/2023 13:49:45

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Unless it's the 1858 one (but that's outside the range)

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    Carol Maddock

    • 19/Sep/2023 13:51:37

    Absolute scenes about the Indemnity Bill at a meeting of Belfast Corporation on Monday, 1 August 1864. A Mr. Rea was raging about the adoption of the Indemnity Bill. He alleged fraud and corruption against many in attendance, including the Mayor, who had Constables remove Mr. Rea. He appeared to go quietly, but...

    Soon after Mr. Rea made his way through the outer door into the space allotted to the public, and was seen to slip over the barrier which divides the chamber. He then sat down, catching a grasp of the table and securing the chair in a favourable position to retain his seat. The constables were down on him without delay, and the order "remove that man" was heard at the same moment. The constables essayed to eject the intruder, but this seemed to be no easy task, for Mr. Rea threw himself on the ground — the large table in the centre of the room was moved away to clear the space. And now it was a trial of strength and ability. The excitement was intense. But the struggle was quickly ended by Messrs. Green and M'Kittrick (both powerful men) catching him (Mr. Rea), each a leg and arm, and literally hauling him out.
    (Irish Examiner, 2 August 1864

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Sep/2023 16:44:20

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/47297387@N03/ Mr Rea in 1858

    BELFAST INDEMNITY BILL, (FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT) by special telegraph.) House of Commons, Monday. At the meeting of the Committee to-day, Mr Rea continued his tedious rambling speech. It had a damaging effect on the Committee. During the greater portion of the hours occupied, the members of the Committee gave unmistakable signs of their impatience under the affliction. Some members marked their disgust a very emphatic manner, while the Chairman, with his proverbial courtesy, could not sit patiently under such wearisome tirade of words.
    Belfast Mercury - Tuesday 18 May 1858

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    Carol Maddock

    • 19/Sep/2023 17:05:12

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/29809546@N00/ No, John. I won't entertain a bad word against my Mr. Rea. It's obvious they were all just agin' him! 😀

  • profile

    Quite Adept

    • 19/Sep/2023 18:29:08

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/47297387@N03/] Mr Rea was quite the campaigner: www.dib.ie/biography/rea-john-a7592 Rea's last stand was as the ‘Orange Cromwellian conservative’ candidate in January 1881 for the representation of St Anne's Ward in the corporation. He did not win, and four months later (17 May 1881) he shot himself in his office at 80 Donegall St., Belfast; the coroner returning a verdict of suicide while of unsound mind.

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    Carol Maddock

    • 19/Sep/2023 18:43:59

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/20451498@N00/ That is a sad end!

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 19/Sep/2023 20:52:59

    What person pinched the portico? I wonder if it still survives as a bogus Greek temple in somebody's back yard. And the poor lad on the left was always teased for his two heads and four bare feet. Or in stereo, four heads and eight bare feet.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 19/Sep/2023 21:26:15

    The Young Bill Limerick In Demnity* a youngster named Bill Was feeling a little bit ill. Seeing everything double Nearly burst like a bubble There's going to be trouble at t' mill . . .
    * - Demnity - a forgotten area of Belfast

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    Flickr

    • 20/Sep/2023 04:15:18

    Congrats on Explore! ⭐ September 19, 2023

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    Brunswick Forge

    • 20/Sep/2023 04:33:29

    📷 You are on today’s Explore page. Congratulations for being in the lineup! And greetings from southwestern Virginia, U.S.A. 📷

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    s0340248

    • 20/Sep/2023 05:15:09

    Glückwunsch zu Explore !

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    ·dron·

    • 20/Sep/2023 05:26:02

    Congrats on Explore!🔥

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    Marut Rata

    • 20/Sep/2023 05:30:36

    💝👍!!! My congrats on a well deserved Explore ✨🍃

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    Sigurd Krieger

    • 20/Sep/2023 06:20:34

    Congrats on Xplore!!

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    waewduan4

    • 20/Sep/2023 06:31:24

    Congrats

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    V A N D E E

    • 20/Sep/2023 07:49:08

    💕 Congrats on Explore, love this capture! 💕 Split Look

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    Niall McAuley

    • 20/Sep/2023 08:15:07

    Death record of John Rea. 59, a bachelor, a solicitor, it records Suicide by shooting himself being of unsound mind, death instantaneous, inquest 17th May 1881. He was quite a character, from [https://www.flickr.com/photos/quiteadept] 's dib link on his career as a lawyer: Thenceforth he became notorious for the high profile of the causes and people he defended; for his eccentricities; for his populism; for the disruptive tactics which led to his being frequently dragged from proceedings, imprisoned for contempt of court, and welcomed on release by torchlight processions; and for his peculiar brand of ‘Orange Fenianism’, which he justified by claiming that English tories were the natural allies of Irish priests, but Orangemen and Fenians were for the working classes.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 20/Sep/2023 09:40:54

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia We haven't had one of your Limericks in ages! Delira to see it...

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    Ian Betley Photography | ianbetley.co.uk

    • 20/Sep/2023 11:28:54

    Lovely shot! ❤

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    54StorminWillyGJ54

    • 21/Sep/2023 05:47:11

    Fantastic ! Congrats on explore !