suckindeesel

• 12/May/2023 07:07:05

Google Earth Link earth.app.goo.gl/KMcCKe #googleearth Still there, known as GILLOOLY HALL sligocathedral.ie/gillooly-hall/about-gillooly-hall/ “Ireland sober is Ireland free” says the bishop. 1903 per DIA www.dia.ie/works/view/9424/building/CO.+SLIGO%2C+SLIGO%2C... 1895 per NIAH www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/32012...

ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

• 12/May/2023 08:11:54

1885 according to sligocathedral.ie/gillooly-hall/about-gillooly-hall/ 1895, opened 1904, restored 2013 according to www.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/lifestyle/gillooly-hal... The statue (of the Bishop?) is not yet there; and someone swiped all the frillyitus.

ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

• 12/May/2023 08:15:30

"Laurence Gillooly CM (May 12, 1819 – January 12, 1895) was an Irish Roman Catholic bishop who served as the Bishop of Elphin from 1858 to 1895." See - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Gillooly Better bio - www.dib.ie/biography/gillooly-laurence-a3482

ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

• 12/May/2023 08:23:46

Flickr is sometimes amazing! In 2022 via https://www.flickr.com/photos/fvega/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/fvega/52700114912/

John Spooner

• 12/May/2023 08:25:44

Opened on Monday 25th January 1897 according to the Sligo Champion Saturday 30 January 1897

The new Temperance Hall in Temple Street, Sligo, was formally opened on Monday evening last by Most Rev. Dr. Clancy, Bishop of Elphin. The Hall, which comprises the Temple Street Schools, is intended to be utilized as a reading and recreation room for the members of the Sligo Total Abstinence League of the Sacred Heart. The League has made great progress in the town since its inception some weeks ago, and already its members may be numbered in hundreds. There is no doubt of the great benefit that will accrue from the movement to the excesses classes in the town amongst whom intemperance is most prevalent. Even now we notice a decrease in the number of cases before the Borough Court. On Monday evening there was large attendance at the Hal! to hear Dr. Clancy’s opening address. His Lordship gave a most eloquent and touching discourse, which was listened to with attention, and warmly applauded its conclusion. Several new members were then enrolled. The Sligo String Band, under the conductorship of Mr. H. Donovan, performed a choice selection of music during the evening.

ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

• 12/May/2023 08:34:21

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] Brilliant, as ever! Mr French /Lawrence was also there. Earlier or later? Spot the Differences - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000317083

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 08:49:08

H. Donovan is in Belfast by the 1901 census. Here is Bishop Clancy.

ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

• 12/May/2023 08:49:47

Via Trove a couple of mentions, implying it was still known as the Temperance Hall in 1906 / 1907 - trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/166967988?searchTerm=s... trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/211983309?searchTerm=s...

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 08:57:08

It is Gillooly hall on the 25" map.

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 08:57:39

A poster in the window is advertising an excursion to Dublin for 2/9

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 09:03:45

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner excellent, so earliest date 1897, the catalogue range for Eason only starts at 1900.

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 09:14:50

I don't see the Hall listed in the 1901 census, but in 1911 John McPartlan (40) is in residence with his family, occupation Caretaker of Temperance Hall. The building is listed as 4 rooms, 2 windows to the front, so it is either a little caretakers house, or the Hall contains a flat?

O Mac

• 12/May/2023 09:24:50

There's a discrepancy between the opening dates, 1897 Sligo Champion and the Dia of 1904. 1897 is correct so I wonder if the hall proper which is to the rear of the above was added/completed at the later date? The Champion article refers only to ' reading and recreation "room"? The hall itself is a lot bigger than a room.

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 09:36:19

Bishop Gillooly only died in 1895 - I think it is likely that the Hall was just named the Temperance Hall when built, and then the statue added and name changed to Gillooly Hall some years after his death.

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 09:39:13

The DIA has a cryptic reference: Name: BYRNE, WILLIAM HENRY, & SON Building: CO. SLIGO, SLIGO, ST MARY'S HALL (GILLOOLY MEMORIAL HALL?) Date: 1911 Nature: Additions. The Cathedral website notes: The Gillooly Hall is the Community Hall of St. Mary’s Cathedral Parish and is located directly across the road from the Cathedral., so St. Mary's Hall is a possible name... If the 1911 additions include the statue, we are possibly before that date?

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 09:44:32

Reading about Bishop Gillooly, my new word for the day is Ultramontanist.

John Spooner

• 12/May/2023 10:28:46

The earliest mention of "Gillooly Hall" in the Sligo Champion I can find is July 1909. The name is used without any further description, as if readers were expected to know what buiding was being mentioned, so I expect the name change was earlier.

John Spooner

• 12/May/2023 11:02:57

The poster in the window appears to have "Excursion to Dublin", "June", and "2/9". After searching for railway adverts I came to the conclusion that there were plenty of special offers from the railway company, but that 2/9 was far too cheap, even for the early 20th century (8s - 10s was the going rate for 3rd class return). Then I found this in the Sligo Champion - Saturday 17 May 1902:

It has been decided that the annual excursion of the members of the Total Abstinence league of the Sacred Heart shall this year consist railway trip to Dublin and back. The Rev. Canon Harte announced on Sunday last that the manager of the M.G.W. Railway had agreed to put on an excursion train to Dublin and back for members of the League for the small sum of 2s. 9d. per head, and for children under 14 years half fare. The excursion is to take place on 29th June

O Mac

• 12/May/2023 11:28:23

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29809546@N00/ Brilliant.

ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

• 12/May/2023 12:07:51

Thanks https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner , megazoom™, and Mr Bill Posters. btw What type of duck is that? A 'sitting duck' gets no virtual sticky buns.

John Spooner

• 12/May/2023 12:23:20

So how did the excursion go? Unfortunately the right-hand column of the lengthy account of the trip in the 5th July Sligo Champion is unclear, but I managed to decipher the following:

- there were over 900 excursionists - "which proves indisputably that the Temperance cause has made vast strides in the town and its neighbourhood" - there was an early mass at the cathedral for the excursionists before they departed. - there were 2 trains - one the "male" train which left at 7 a.m. and the females' train left 30 minutes later. "It was amusing to see the disappointed faces of a number of gay Lotharios" when they found this out. - The trains arrived in Dublin at 11:45 and 12:00 - The band of the Society were in their uniforms and performed at various times during the visit. - After mass at the Church of the Capuchin Fathers the band paraded and others "generally went through the city where fancy led" Glasnevin and St Stephen's Green are mentioned - "The rain came down in torrents" just as they arrived back at Broadstone station. - They arrived back at Sligo half an hour after midnight. - Though tired, the excursionists were "well pleased with the splendid day's outing, which everyone enjoyed"

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 12:40:22

I'd say the duck is a regular domesticated duck:

John Spooner

• 12/May/2023 12:44:28

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] The man on the left looks as if he is carrying a number of rolled-up sheets of paper. I wonder if it is the elusive Mr. Bill Posters himself, having picked up the posters from the Temperance Hall with the task of posting them around the town?

Niall McAuley

• 12/May/2023 12:48:29

Canon Harte is one of seven clergymen living with the Bishop in the 1901 census, along with a Butler, Housekeeper, Groom, two housemaids and Patrick Gillen, transcribed as a Valsh and then crossed out (?). Probably Patrick Gillen, tailor, who lived nearby.

John Spooner

• 12/May/2023 13:02:12

https://www.flickr.com/photos/91549360@N03 I think you are right about the official opening in 1897 and completion much later. Sligo Champion - Saturday 23 May 1908 describes the building and adds 'only completed last year'. Also, "It contains a commodious central hall, with stage and gallery, and seating accommodation for over 800 persons; reading looms, billiard rooms, committee rooms and baths."

O Mac

• 12/May/2023 13:28:54

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29809546@N00/ That makes sense. Surely such a sized hall seating 800 people would have been mentioned in that Sligo Champion piece of 1897 had it been built at the time. Well done with the research. I raise my glass to you. (non alcoholic).

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 14:30:54

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I second your proposal and will update the date range immediately. Great find, well done! Mary

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 14:33:10

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Ultramontanism is a clerical political conception within the Catholic Church that places strong emphasis on the prerogatives and powers of the Pope.

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 14:33:58

https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia A regular domestic sitting duck!

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 14:37:41

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I am surprised there were even a few "gay Lotharios" in the temperance movement!

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 14:41:51

https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley https://www.flickr.com/photos/91549360@N03 https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I never expected a simple photograph of a Temperance Hall to generate so much excellent research. Well done all of you and thank you. Mary

Deirge (Del)

• 12/May/2023 15:29:29

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04] I've heard the name "Gillooly Hall" many a time, and been past the place many a time, and I've not really noticed it at all and not known that was the "Gillooly Hall". Regards temperance and all that in South Sligo ... I recall being told some youngsters could drink until 12 then they were expected to remain alcohol-free to 21. And I've known one Nun from Liverpool visiting her great-niece being concerned the 2-year-old keep shouting "Dou shutup" at her from her cot pen ... mainly due to having secretly supplied a glass of Smithwick's from the Nun's brother! But the thing of course is The Bingo. I remember in the 1960'd The Bingo in Sligo was in the City Hall. And if I recall right the Sligoes will be off to Gurteen tonight for The Bingo! One key point here is that on the Republic of Ireland Historic Environment Viewer is the NIAH entry has a link to the HEV and the HEV links back to to the NIAH entry. North of the border as we were yesterday that functionality doesn't work! I can see from the Wiki Loves Monuments Ireland map the Gilhooley Hall isn't listed which probably means no wikidata item. I might be sorting that later (the item not the map). I'll question at some point to the relevant party why its not there but its likely due to The Bingo balls. The quacking question is does anyone know the breed of duck or am I goosed ?

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 16:08:37

https://www.flickr.com/photos/196366907@N03 Very good. I am glad you helped us quack the case.

Foxglove

• 12/May/2023 16:37:14

could be a Pekin duck (not "Peking") .... it's waiting for the chicken to cross the road...

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 16:46:11

https://www.flickr.com/photos/foxglove ;-)

Deirge (Del)

• 12/May/2023 17:54:47

Gaeilge for duck is "lacha"! I remembered that off the top of my head albeit I cross checked with a (dodgy) online translator!

Deirge (Del)

• 12/May/2023 18:51:52

Found something! Mac Con Iomaire, Mairtin and Cully, Andrea, "The History of Eggs in Irish Cuisine and Culture" (2007). Conference papers. 4. On page 11 ". In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries there appeared a number of fancy breeds such as the Bantam hens, Peking Ducks and Indian Runner Ducks" ... Now the scholars seem to have misdone "Pekin" for "Peking" but the key point is the "Pekin" is regarded as a "fancy breed" introduced to Ireland circa 1900 and likely most ordinary folk might not have one. That document also indicates duck eggs were generally given to hard working men such as turf cutters.

suckindeesel

• 12/May/2023 20:01:17

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30369211@N00/ Could be ‘valet’ The were well looked after with all those servants!

suckindeesel

• 12/May/2023 20:05:20

https://www.flickr.com/photos/196366907@N03/ Those duck eggs are bigger with a stronger taste than hen’s eggs, Used to get mine from Bradbury of Athy in the old days.

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 12/May/2023 20:53:57

https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 My Father god rest him always loved a good fresh duck egg, Mary

Deirge (Del)

• 12/May/2023 23:33:12

https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 everyone keeps interrupting me at home! I've found a ground 1894 on ducks and comparing Pekin's - Aylesbury - Indian Runners and my favourite Muscovy's ... love the way the drakes put their heads forward from side to side and emit a horsey deep breath as they can't quack. The book seemed to imply the Aylesbury was inclined to get exhausted and flop down quicker than the Pekin if a stoat got amongst the flock. In terms of temperance I think I've found a 1891 book that indicates Sligo was possibly a key place for the movement due to a returning Irishman named Clancy failing to make an impact in the temperance movement in Dublin but making great strides in Sligo! Problem is I may have misread this. That book also mentions "The Pledge" which I now recall was the term used (later?) for people pledging not to drink the alcohol before 21 but I now recall there was a loophole as the pledge didn't have to be taken until 12 years of age. I've now got a shedload of stuff to do on Wikidata Items. And I need to study the etymology of "The Pledge". .... Don't believe anything I've typed here until someone has verified the sources as I really get mixed up and am infamous for CIR,

Niall McAuley

• 13/May/2023 07:03:21

Suck Diesel Yes! Valet makes sense. Gillen is a tailor in both 1901 and 1911, lives nearby on Gallows Hill in 1901. The census-filler listed him with the Bishop and then crossed him out because he was not staying.

John Spooner

• 13/May/2023 09:56:31

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley On the Dublin excursion, Canon Harte was on the males' train with a Mr J.J. Golden, while accompanying the females were Father Hynes, six other (unnamed) clergymen, and Mr Hildebrand of the railway company. Sounds like the Bishop was left on his own that day.

John Spooner

• 13/May/2023 10:36:01

The Sligo Duck There once was a daredevil duck who always trusted his luck he sat in the road with no fear of Toad quite sure he'd never be struck (by a truck)

Deirge (Del)

• 13/May/2023 11:10:59

@[https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner]: (Wood-Green, History of Sligo ..., 1892, p213) says George Hildebrand was station-master at Sligo since 1873 until later made inspector of portion of the line. Turning over to p214 there is a specific mention of eggs being a principal goods out of Sligo that were for transport to England (by train)? There are so many offshoots from this topic that need to be investigated ... really thanks to all contributors and I'm going over the contributions!

John Spooner

• 13/May/2023 12:32:32

This Sligo Streetview seems appropriate.

suckindeesel

• 13/May/2023 17:14:10

https://www.flickr.com/photos/196366907@N03/ There were at least 4 temperance halls in Co. Sligo, according to a quick Google search. Also, Temperance hotels were also a thing.. I’ve a dim memory that 12 year olds who took the pledge were called Young Irish Crusaders, but wouldn’t swear on it.

National Library of Ireland on The Commons

• 13/May/2023 21:01:34

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner New Tag, "LimerickbySpooner"

Deirge (Del)

• 14/May/2023 14:06:34

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04] I though I was onto something with reformed shoemaker Thomas Claney making an impact starting in Sligo of getting seven of the Temperance Society to sign a teetotal pledge.(Winskill, 189x, v2, p10) The Wikipedia article for Temperance Hall at this moment is not really in a useful state; though the Alliance House Foundation website give some background to the temperance movement and buidlings. Bishop Gilhooly's successor, Bishop John Clancy (1856–1912), was also a temperance advocate. There's evidence on the Catholic Archives Catalogue of the name "League of Young Irish Crusaders" including a certifcate. (I'm also noting some glass plate images on that site from Healy, Angelus, 1875-1953, Capuchin priest that become public domain from next year).

Deirge (Del)

• 14/May/2023 14:36:58

[https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04] Ah .. just found "The Pledge" info on Wikipedia under the Pioneer Total Abstinence Association (PTAA) article! The trick the girl [who boarded at St. Mary's? Swinford with the Sisters of (no ;-) Mercy back in the 1960s] told me about drinking until 12 trick and then taking the pledge until 21 (now 18). PTAA likely surplanted the Father Mathew's temperance movement at least in some places. The PTAA said nothing about about a pioneer plying me with stout beyond my limit though!

suckindeesel

• 14/May/2023 16:20:01

https://www.flickr.com/photos/196366907@N03/ You were easily led astray!

Deirge (Del)

• 15/May/2023 01:54:26

Pleased to announced the duck has made it to Simple Wikipedia, at least for the moment! Studying the 4th edition of "Ducks and how to make them pay" (Cook, 1894) I am thinking the duck is more likely an Aylesbury than a Pekin from Cook's comment about the Aylesbury being less able to dodge the stoat and the rat and generally I support more likely to be needing the rest. I'm not too concerned about the duck being in the road as I used to tractor haycocks into farmyards in 1970's on fast turnround for the odd bottle of stout and never had issues with freerange ducks or chickens and the traffic on Temple Street would be far less hectic in 1902. I am minded Bishop John Clancy's Palace (Presbytery) is up to the left with a grand green in front of it that would be suitable for a duck to graze on so its home could have been there. Thats all folks! 😄