Marvellously moustachioed Marquis...
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Where: Leinster, County Kilkenny, Ireland
Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.
When: 21 October 1915
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
... with beautifully behatted Marchioness of Ormond(e), and a lovely lorgnetted Lady Butler a lovely lorgnetted Marchioness of Ormond(e), and a beautifully behatted Lady Butler. (Thanks ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq, who is always amazing, for spotting how Substitute Morning Mary was led astray by the allure of alliteration and mixed up our two ladies above.)
We thought we'd stay with moustaches and humans for just one more day. Now our Krazy Kataloguer knows that the date range for this one (circa 1901 to 1954) is daft, so can you help us to narrow it down to the earlier end of that range? Also, any bright ideas on the location?
UPDATE
Thanks all, and especially John Spooner. We now have an exact date - Thursday, 21 October 1915 - and we know this photograph was taken in the grounds of Kilkenny Castle! So, ringing the Date Established and Location Identified KLAXONS!
Photographer: A. H. Poole
Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford
Date:ca. 1901 to 1954 Thursday afternoon, 21 October 1915
NLI Ref: POOLEWP 2650
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 5073
We thought we'd stay with moustaches and humans for just one more day. Now our Krazy Kataloguer knows that the date range for this one (circa 1901 to 1954) is daft, so can you help us to narrow it down to the earlier end of that range? Also, any bright ideas on the location?
UPDATE
Thanks all, and especially John Spooner. We now have an exact date - Thursday, 21 October 1915 - and we know this photograph was taken in the grounds of Kilkenny Castle! So, ringing the Date Established and Location Identified KLAXONS!
Photographer: A. H. Poole
Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford
Date:
NLI Ref: POOLEWP 2650
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 5073
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ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Hang on! Isn't the Marchioness the one on the left with the lorgnette? 'Cos of this other photo of her - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000593069
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
And the Marquis in the same clothes and buttonhole. Probably same day? - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000593068
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
He is James Edward William Theobald Butler, 3rd Marquess of Ormonde, KP, PC (Ire) (5 October 1844 – 26 October 1919) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Butler,_3rd_Marquess_of_Ormonde So photo is before October 1919. Here he is in 1899 - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/29961041123/]
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Thank you! Though you ruined my lovely 'lliteration... :)
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Avoid Alliteration. Always. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with. Avoid cliches like the plague. (They’re old hat.) Employ the vernacular. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc. ... ... From - www.plainlanguage.gov/resources/humor/how-to-write-good/
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Could be Kilkenny Castle? (he caught alliteration) The windows, stonework, etc - via https://www.flickr.com/photos/rackelh/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/rackelh/36604373922/
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ I had to Google Lorgnette! Very good.
DannyM8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ I must say that I thought the original alliteration was not up to your normal standards!
Niall McAuley
Paging forward in the Poole catalogue, the first dated pic is POOLEWP 2657, 29 January 1916. Paging back, I see POOLEWP 2645, 2 August 1915.
Niall McAuley
The UK National Portrait Gallery has pics of the Marquess in 1917, looks similar. He is wearing a very similar coat/tie and pin combo there.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Harsh, but probably fair!
Niall McAuley
Here he is at thepeerage. Is the Lady Butler at left one of their daughters? The elder, Lady Beatrice, married in 1901 and became a Pole-Carew, so this would be the younger, Lady Constance, who never married.
Niall McAuley
Marquess and Marchioness at home in 1911, just themselves and 17 servants. The Butler's butler had his own own household. Beatrice and Constance we both at home in 1901,
Niall McAuley
Not sure who is on the left, but it is not Constance or Beatrice, very much younger at this date. Nor did the Marquess have an ummarried sister. Ah, the catalogue says Lady A. Butler, may help. Probably Lady Annabella, married to Rev. Lord James Theobald Bagot John Butler, the Marquess's youngest brother. He was a Rector in Kent from 1898-1923, so there might be a record of a visit to Kilkenny around 1915.
John Spooner
Look what I found in The Tatler - Wednesday 24 November 1915
Niall McAuley
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Aaaah! I didn't think to use the husband's initial A! No, still wouldn't have guessed, since the husband's (and 4th Marquess's) name was James Arthur Wellington Foley Butler. So this is Ellen née Stager. Her sons would be the 5th and 6th Marquesseseses.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ The castle was sold for £25 or was it £50?
Niall McAuley
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Does the Tatler title suggest that Lady Ormonde is the one on our left, and that Lady Arthur Butler is in the middle? Referring to the interior shot above (16 years earlier) I think the lady in the middle is Lady Ormonde, with Lady Butler on our left.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner That's excellent, John, thanks a million. I'll add November 1915 as a date for this one then. And https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley yes, that title does put Lady Arthur Butler is in the middle.
John Spooner
This looks suspiciously like the same photocall - this time in the Irish Independent on Wednesday 27 October 1915, with photo credit to Moran of Kilkenny, but no date for the Red Cross fundraiser. And explicitly naming them left to right.
Kilkenny Moderator to the rescue! In the edition of Wednesday 13 October 1915, there's a notice of the Fete 
so the photo can be dated to
WednesdayThursday 21st October 1915 (in the afternoon).suckindeesel
“Theobald Fitzwalter, an English nobleman, came with young Prince John to Ireland in 1185. The prince gave him a large area of land and the important job of Chief Butler of Ireland. This meant that if the king was visiting Ireland, the Chief Butler had to make sure there was plenty of food and drink ready for him and for the group travelling with him. The Butlers were also given a special privilege known as the Prisage of Wine. They were entitled about 15% of all the wine that was imported to Ireland. Another special honour for the Chief Butler was that he had to serve the first glass of wine to the king after he had been crowned. This is what the three cups on the Butler crest stands for.” “By the 1930s, the Butlers no longer were able to afford the upkeep of Kilkenny Castle. In 1935 they decided to sell most of their belongings in the castle and leave. An auction took place in November. It lasted for ten days. One of the days was set aside for selling over 6,000 books from the library in the castle. Some of the paintings, tapestries and a large marble table remained. In 1967, Arthur Butler sold the castle to a Castle Restoration Committee for £50. Shortly afterwards it was handed over to the state. Charles Butler, the last Marquis of Ormonde, died in 1997 age 98.” www.heritageinschools.ie/content/resources/the%20butlers%...
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
John Spooner Even more accurate date than you thought earlier in the day. Thanks a million, and thanks for also giving us a definite location - Kilkenny Castle.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] Excellent! Somebody really clever might be able to work out the time from the shadows. More specifically, the photo was two windows to the left of the door at Kilkenny Castle; see the slight stone discolouration "T" above the window - Googlesphere - goo.gl/maps/jkQqNzLUWiEp8yDs6
John Spooner
In this picture from The Sketch on Wednesday 6 August 1913, also by Poole, he appears to be wearing the very same jacket, and at least the same style of collar and tie, if not the very same articles. The moustache still needs another two years' growth to achieve magnificence. The badge/brooch on the Marchioness's blouse looks suspiciously like the one on the Marquess's lapel in 1915 - a cross is just about visible using ultra-hyper-megazoom.
John Spooner
The badge/brooch looks like the White Ensign of the Royal Yacht Squadron www.rys.org.uk/
Niall McAuley
His younger daughter Constance was a keen yachtswoman. Wikipedia says "Both of her parents were active in yachting"