Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.
Some great characters there! My favourite is second from right, middle row. Edit - he is Patrick Hartley.
I think it was https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ who said we could determine the date from the state of the carpet ...
To start with the notes from the photo page:
"Front l/r: Groom's sister Mary Ann Aylward Frisby, Fr. Brennan O.Carm (bride's uncle), Hannah Raftice Aylward, (groom's mother), Patrick Brennan (bride's father), Fr. Jim Brennan (bride's brother), Joe Barron?. Centre l/r: Mickie Frisby, unknown, Bob Aylward (groom's brother), Edward Aylward (Groom) and Maureen Brennan (Bride), Eileen Brennan Walsh (bride's sister), Patrick Hartley and his wife Bridie Aylward (groom's sister). Back l/r: unknown, Kitty Reade Aylward, (groom's sister-in-law, married to Bob), Philip Brennan (bride's brother), Richard Kenneally (married to groom's sister Margaret), Jimmy Walsh (married to bride's sister Eileen), Fr Patrick Holden of Knockbrown & Texas (grooms 1st cousin), unknown."
Bob Aylward & Kitty Reade were only married in 1942, so we are probably after that. The marriage records are only available to 1944, so it is more than likely that's why I can't find any record.
I would be willing to bet that Ned Aylward was almost certainly a member of the Garda Siochana! Back in the 1960's - 70's there was a Garda Superintendent Ned Aylward who was very tall like the groom and who would have retired in the early 70's! One of the last times I saw him was the night the British Embassy was burned down and he was with those in the front line!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie I was getting hints in that direction from newspapers - at the very least, he also had a brother Robert, and there don't seem to have been very many other Edward Aylwards around.
I found this in the IMDbPro website and it turns out that I was right. As I recall he was Super in Rathmines at the time and that would explain his friendship with the "REAL" Taoiseach Jack Lynch!
Edward Aylward (1913–1974)
Edward Aylward was born on November 22, 1913 in Knockmoylan, Mullinavat, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland. He was an actor, known for Captain Lightfoot (1955). He was married to Maureen Brennan. He died on April 13, 1974 in Dublin, Ireland. See full bio »
Born: November 22, 1913 in Knockmoylan, Mullinavat, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
Died: April 13, 1974 (age 60) in Dublin, Ireland
Here is his birth record.
Everyone looking at the camera, nobody blinking. Well done, Mr Poole!
You always know it's Poole straight away by the vast numbers of lapel pins (pioneer badges, I assume) and priests. His wedding shots always seem to feature at least three of each.
Virtual popcorn prize to anyone who can find him in 'Captain Lightfoot' (1955) - youtu.be/uRbUgynvaCc
"... He was chosen to appear in the film "Captain Lightfoot" because of his height. The film studio looked for the biggest police officer they could find in Ireland to play the part of Big Tom, and at 6ft 5, he fitted the bill."
From - www.imdb.com/name/nm0043890/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm
"Captain Lightfoot" ??? What an awful load of Oirish drivel. Painful.... You'll see the groom alias "Big Tom" @ 15.45. fighting with Rock Hudson.. youtu.be/uRbUgynvaCc
Okay - I've done a bit of digging in the Irish Catholic Directory for the 1940s & 1950s to see if our priests can narrow down the dating.
I didn't find a certain answer - but here's my best guess.
I could find nothing about Fr Holden of Texas.
There are a number of Fr James Brennans of about the right age, but the most probable one is Fr James Brennan of Ossory who was ordained 19th June 1943. He seems to have been a teacher - possibly a scripture scholar - who did postgraduate studies in Maynooth and taught in St Kieran's College, Kilkenny. This doesn't help much with dating, but probably means that the picture is 1943 or later.
Fr Brennan OCarm was almost certainly Fr William Joachim Brennan OCarm - a Carmelite who was based at various Carmelite Houses. He was, for a while, Superior of the Carmelite Community at Aungier Street - i.e. Whitefriar Street Church. He was also based at Gort Mhuire (also in Dublin) where he died on 9th February 1953. He was - per his tombstone - aged 74.
So the wedding was probably some time between 1943 & 1953, but that does virtually nothing to narrow down our dates. If I can find Fr WJ Brennan's birth cert or a mention of him on the census, it might help fix the bride's family. It's probable that either the William or the Joachim of his name was his name in religion. He was probably baptised William. Or maybe Joachim. But that seems less likely.
BTW, it'd be a great thing if someone would digitise the annual Ordination & Obituary lists in the Irish Catholic Directory. Genealogists & historians would get great use out of them.
Well, this is interesting - it looks like a son (also Philip) of Philip Brennan - back row, brother of the bride - followed his great-uncle into the Carmelites. See the second page of this newsletter. source.southdublinlibraries.ie/bitstream/10599/9516/3/Kno...
His parents Phil and Joan Brennan had moved to Dublin from
County Kilkenny in 1966 with their three children, Maria,
John and Jim. The Brennans were familiar with the Carmelite
Order as Mr. Brennan had often visited his uncle Fr. William
(Joachim) Brennan in Knocktopher, Whitefriar Street and
Terenure College. Small wonder then that the family bought
a house on Rathdown Avenue
It looks as though Fr Philip Brennan OCarm - nephew of the bride - is still active as a priest in Dublin.
I was just thinking of the coincidence that Gardai feature in the last two photos posted on the stream???? In the one they are a mere backdrop to the visit of the Taoiseach and the one today the centre of attention with his bride:-)
I think it might be the Mary Brennan born 27th November 1917 to Patrick Brennan and Johanna Walsh. At the very least I have found birth records for a Philip, and an Ellen, and that along with the father Patrick and the Kilkenny connection makes me fairly sure.
It is before 1947, as I found a description of the wedding of Eileen Brennan and James Walsh's wedding where Mrs. E. Aylward was Matron of Honour. (Which also implies that the names and titles in the photo notes given are not automatically the ones they held at the time!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy The Fr. James Brennan in question was in Edinburgh at the time of Eileen Brennan's wedding in January 1947, if that helps identify him better?
Yes! That helps quite a lot. It rules out the Fr James Brennan mentioned already.
Our Fr James Brennan was ordained for the Diocese of Edinburgh on 10th June 1945 in Kilkenny. He was a student of St Kieran's College, Kilkenny.
I think it very likely that he's the same as this priest who died in 2009: notices.irishtimes.com/death/brennan-rev-mgr-james-k/3188...
BRENNAN Rev. Mgr. James K (Kilcready Ballyhale Co Kilkenny and formerly of Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh) who died on November 26, 2009. He will be sadly missed by Pat, Rena, Claire, Seamus & Liam Walsh, nephews Sean and Michael Walsh, Fr Eamon Aylward and Patrick, nieces Noreen, Joan and Marian Aylward, grandnephews, grandnieces, family and friends. R.I.P. St Martin's Church Ballyhale, Requiem Mass today (Saturday) at 12 noon followed by burial in the adjoining Cemetery
Published in the Irish Times from 27th November 2009 to 28th November 2009
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] I'm almost certain you're right.
I went looking for the marriage record of Mary's parents & found the following -
Patrick Brennan (son of Philip Brennan) married Johanna Walsh (daughter of Richard Walsh) on 28/02/1911: civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marri...
In the 1911 Census they are in Ballyhale in HER family's home farm. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kilkenny/Ballyh...
Note - his residence at the time of marriage is unclear, but I think it's meant to be Ballintlee.
Go back 10 years to find him in the 1901 Census and you see that his parents are Philip and Bridget. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kilkenny/Dunnam...
The townland isn't Ballintlee, but it's very close to it geographically. So can we find his birth cert?
with an address of Ballintlee, and parents Philip Brennan & Bridget Tracey.
I also found - born to the same parents - his brother James: civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth...
and his brother William, who became Fr William Joachim OCarm. civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth...
For William the address is Tuitstown, but again this is a nearby townland & the parents are the same.
I'd be confident that Sharon has probably landed on the correct family.
Maurice Aylwards brother Maurice had an adventurous life.
Here's another wedding pose dated 14th June 1945
That date for the wedding makes a lot of sense - the bride's brother was ordained on the 10th of June, and presumably had a few days freedom at home before reporting for duty in Edinburgh.
I'd love to know whether the newly-ordained priest got the job of doing the wedding or whether he had to make way for his distinguished uncle. Something to check when the civil records of 1945 are made public, unless someone can turn up a newspaper description.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Would a four day ordained priest have what it takes? Maybe it was co-celebrated. Proud day for the mothers. Edward, the groom's, father died 1918 when he was 5.
They didn't do concelebration back then. That only became an option in the early 1970s, if I recall correctly.
I can imagine the couple timing their wedding so that they could be Fr James's first marriage.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] James Brennan was the celebrant of the 1947 marriage, which was actually a double wedding - both his sister Eileen and brother Philip got married to non-sibling Walshs. I haven't yet turned up any articles with the Aylward wedding,
Cannot answer your last question Bernard but I imagine it was my uncle and not my grand uncle. Yes, Dad was the Superintendent in Rathmines at the time of his death. Was 60 when he died. He had his trousers burned at the British embassy and just went off shift when the building went up. He worked in Donnybrook for most of his life and his first post as Super was to Enniscorthy (2 yrs), Wicklow (1 yr) and then to the Park responsible for police property throughout the republic before being assigned to Rathmines. Mom & Dad were married in June 1945 in Ferrybank Church. My uncle Philip Brennan in the photo was married and lived in Ballyhale. They had no family.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thank you for the confirmation - it's always great when relatives are able to chime in and either give more info or confirm what we've deduced (or on a couple of rare occasions tell us we're completely out!).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy Here's the article regarding the later weddings:
Incredible how you all, especially Bernard and Sharon were able to get so many correct facts so quickly. You must have a lot of experience in seeking and searching. There were very few mistakes before I saw the comments. Someone got their Philip's mixed up. My Uncle Philip B from the news cutting above was a cousin of the Philip Brennan who lived near Terenure College. The other little confusion for you was that Patrick B my grandfather, grew up in Ballintee and moved to Ballyhale following his marriage to Johanna Walsh.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Eamon, as Sharon said, we're always delighted to have family members show up. On at least a couple of occasions people have stumbled across this project and seen photos of their relatives that they've not seen before. Thanks for adding to the story and for putting us straight in places.
I think the NLI have been putting their photos up like this for the past decade or so, and as best as I can remember, I've been active on and off since about 2012, so we have plenty of experience rooting around in the various digitised records.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Eamon, I agree with your observations about our contributors. I would back them to investigate and to find the solution to any problem we set for them whatsoever. A fantastic resource. We are so lucky! Mary
A three priest wedding!
An uncle, a brother and a 1st cousin on holiday from the US.
among many other uncles, brothers and cousins who attended the wedding.
lovely family gathering