The start of the Camino

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Where: Leinster, Ireland

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When: 01 January 1880

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Many apologies from a very contrite Evening Mary. I was adding some text here, and Flickr ate our whole description of this photograph from yesterday morning. To try to recap, Morning Mary had originally thought that this was the St. James's Church that marks the start of the Camino for Irish people. However, Frank Courtney had pointed out that this is the other St. James's Church...

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 1865-1914 1890-1899 (mostly tram evidence)

NLI Ref: L_ROY_05929

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

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Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 6434
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio glassnegative nationallibraryofireland stjameschurch jamesstreet dublin caminodesantiagodecompostela passport credencial beginning stjamesschurch jamessstreet leinster ireland lawrencephotographcollection

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  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Jan/2021 08:50:33

    Good morning! Pre electric trams ...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Jan/2021 09:19:09

    Tram tracks, so after 1872. per the beachcomber, before electrification in 1900.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Jan/2021 09:24:45

    Finns pub is from 1890, per the NIAH.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Jan/2021 09:28:22

    in the distance I see a gate pillar into the hospital from 1895

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Jan/2021 09:32:37

    this was tram 21, electrified 4 Sept 1899.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Jan/2021 09:38:42

    They were working on that monument / obelisk / sundial thing in the distance. Perhaps installing drinking fountains? The sundial has a 1790 date on it per goo.gl/maps/FmavTFBfauRzNcXx8 .

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Jan/2021 09:47:24

    Aha! "... This drinking fountain was designed by Francis Sandys and is an interesting example of the decorative appeal of functional street furniture at the close of the eighteenth century. Originally a basin surrounded the pedestal, into which water flowed from the masks at the base, these were later replaced by the cast-iron fountains by T. Kennedy of Kilmarnock. The obelisk was refaced in 1932. It is an interesting focal point on the streetscape, and is of technical and social interest as an example of the early provision of drinking water in a public place. The carefully executed masks provide artistic interest." From - www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/50080... When did Mr Kennedy of Kilmarnock fit the new fountains - hoping in the 1890s ... ?

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Jan/2021 09:52:02

    Aha x 2! The NLI is always amazing! In 1966 by Elinor Wiltshire - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/28912048344/

  • profile

    Frank_C

    • 11/Jan/2021 10:04:28

    However, I believe the church shown is not the start of the Camino. The one shown in the photo is now the Pearse Lyons Distillery - but I think was also a St. James Church (Protestant). The Camino one is on the other side of the road (not shown in the photo) not far from where the photo was taken.

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    Frank_C

    • 11/Jan/2021 10:12:29

    Here's the Camino one : www.flickr.com/gp/frankc_ie/5L67yw

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Jan/2021 11:21:15

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/frankc_ie Frank, at least we were on the correct Street!!

  • profile

    Frank_C

    • 11/Jan/2021 11:40:06

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Yes - didn;t know until today that they were both St. James. Incidentally, before Pearse Lyons, it used to be a lighting showroom. Now has an impressive glass spire.

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    suckindeesel

    • 11/Jan/2021 13:01:32

    The #21 tram route to Inchicore opened in July 1878 and was electrified in 4 September 1899, so photo no later than mid 1899, and probably earlier as no sign of any electrification works in progress.

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    derangedlemur

    • 11/Jan/2021 13:17:56

    If that's 1901's Denis Finn, Family Grocer, on the corner, he has a bit of a trek into work every day: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Rathmine...

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    suckindeesel

    • 11/Jan/2021 13:27:22

    Take the #12 from Palmerston Rd to the Pillar and then the #21 to James St. Probably quicker then than nowadays.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Jan/2021 15:08:49

    Ellen and Bridget Finn have a drapery at #116 in 1901, and on the B1 (14) we see #115 is a public house owned by a John Finn.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Jan/2021 15:40:42

    Denis Finn, merchant, married Mary Helen Long in 1896. His father, John Finn, farmer, hers John Long, merchant, of 64 Rathgar Road.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Jan/2021 15:44:59

    By 1911, the Finns are running The Bath pub on Bath Avenue. I think a James Delaney has this pub on James St by then

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Jan/2021 18:10:18

    Date range is 1890 (Finns Pub per NIAH) - 1899 (pre electric trams) It appears that none of the buildings have survived, except for the fountain, church and ornate entrance gate on right. That gate now appears to be the entrance to the modern distillery, but does anyone know what its original purpose was? It doesn't match the style of the brewery gates. I see a steeple in the far distance but can't identify it. The fountain also served as a horse trough. I think you can assume that any church, unless identified specifically as RC, is COI, same goes for old OSI maps.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 11/Jan/2021 19:43:46

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] As far as I can see, that steeple in the distance is probably that of the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham!

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    suckindeesel

    • 11/Jan/2021 20:13:41

    Yes, that looks correct, it matches the Royal Hospital. But what about the fancy entrance gate? Going by the 25" it looks like just another entrance to the brewery, but is different in style to their other gates

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    O Mac

    • 11/Jan/2021 20:49:16

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] NLI uploaded Wiltshire photo of gate No 116 5 years ago. www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/24882456989/in/photolist-...

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Jan/2021 22:44:07

    It's a pretty fancy entrance, I wonder if it had some special significance, although the 25" shows it leading to an enclosed area containing a well

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    Niall McAuley

    • 12/Jan/2021 10:08:04

    I referred above to the gate of St Patrick's, one pillar visible in the distance. The niah says c.1895. the DIA says 1887-1892, citing an Irish Builder article from 1897. so 1892-1899

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    Niall McAuley

    • 12/Jan/2021 11:21:50

    Although there is no saying the pillar was last thing 1892. OK, back to 1890-1899.

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    DaithiDePaor

    • 16/Jan/2021 14:21:42

    Roque's map of 1756 shows a soldiers' infirmary on the site behind the gate which ties in with the military imagery at the top. flic.kr/p/2ksBqBM

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    DaithiDePaor

    • 16/Jan/2021 16:28:44

    More about the fountain here: stjamesparish.ie/the-fountain/