Margaret was no Square!

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Where: N Ireland, Newry Mourne and Down, UK

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: Unknown

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
As we prepare for the weekend, we will relax a little with a known location for a change! Margaret Square in Newry with horses, and not donkeys in the shafts, together with cyclists rolling on the American side of the street! It will be interesting to see what we can find out about the shot?

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 18651895-1914 (Thanks John Spooner!)

NLI Ref: L_ROY_05188

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 22223
margaretsquare newry down ulster northernireland ireland robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland lawrencephotographcollection victoriahotel ohagan pharmacy chemist bt341de ohagansmedicalhall he

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  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 13/Nov/2020 09:46:28

    Streetview

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 13/Nov/2020 09:58:17

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] your streetview has jumped 90°. tis looking North we are to be sure. ( bad Irish accents are all the rage these days) maps.app.goo.gl/KTuymgm5vpQYc4BS9

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    cargeofg

    • 13/Nov/2020 10:07:11

    The dormer windows of the Victoria Hotel remain on the roof of the Ulster bank but chimneys have gone. Raised name White Cross Hotel on the render in Margaret St is still present.http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000338350

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 13/Nov/2020 10:09:47

    Mr French / Lawrence took three other photos of O'Hagan's Medical Hall (same day; blinds are the same) - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000338350 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000322161 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000321216 And so did [https://www.flickr.com/photos/kilwirraarchitects/] in 2009 - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/kilwirraarchitects/3562428050/]

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 13/Nov/2020 10:16:47

    That is a very fancy octagonal hexagonal gas lamp. It has a cast-iron vine growing up it, better seen in this one - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000322161

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    John Spooner

    • 13/Nov/2020 10:29:38

    Charles O'Hagan advertised that his Medical Hall was 'now open' in The Newry Reporter in January 1895.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 13/Nov/2020 10:42:24

    The Victoria Hotel was relatively new. Same corner different angle in this pre 1882 stereo pair - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000565469 The Medical Hall was previously a seed store.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 13/Nov/2020 10:45:27

    This image must be seconds or minutes different; having no luck finding it in the catalogue - www.historicalpicturearchive.com/shop/pictures/hill-stree...

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 13/Nov/2020 11:06:54

    The DIA has an entry for the hotel "to be rebuilt" in 1878.

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    cargeofg

    • 13/Nov/2020 11:23:12

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia I don't think that they were all on same day. First two plates yes but third one is later or earlier as there is an extra sign on Warnocks for Perth Dye Works and also an iron frame present for a canopy is missing. The other sign present on both photos is a Stephens Inks thermometer sign.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 13/Nov/2020 11:24:53

    Charles O'Hagan was 31 in 1901. Living in Greenore, Co. Louth by 1911.

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    cargeofg

    • 13/Nov/2020 11:29:12

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner No cars to be seen or motorcycles and O'Hagan has no sign for Motor spirits so 1900/1903 latest.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 13/Nov/2020 11:35:27

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Oops! I was testing to see who was awake.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 13/Nov/2020 11:38:48

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Ladies fashions look about 1900, too.

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    cargeofg

    • 13/Nov/2020 11:47:52

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Not as bad as me .I said a building was demolished but was still standing and in my old home townhttps://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet caught me for that misdemeanour.

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    cargeofg

    • 13/Nov/2020 11:49:51

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Lady on cycle looks to have full length dress CAB_01585.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 13/Nov/2020 12:01:07

    10 (or possibly 30) years later the hotel was a bank: www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/26737946663/

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 13/Nov/2020 12:03:28

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] I spy a sign for Carborine motor spirit at O'Hagans (the small white rectangle right at the corner). His earliest Newry Reporter advert which mentions Carborine (or any other motor spirit) was on November 24th 1904 July 9th 1904. carburine

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    suckindeesel

    • 13/Nov/2020 17:46:17

    "The Newry and Mourne in 1914" directory, www.bagenalscastle.com/documents/1914 Directory.pdf , still lists the Victoria Hotel. The directory also includes a photo of Margaret Sq. in which "O'Hagan" has become "O'Hagan and O'Hare", druggists. So, - 1914, given the renaming of the O'Hagan. The 1910 directory www.libraryireland.com/UlsterDirectory1910/Newry4.php also lists "O'Hagan and O'Hare", druggists, whereas our photo shows the shop sign as "O'Hagen Medical Hall. Grace's Guide includes: "1914 Motor spirit and oil manufacturers and refiners. Specialities: "Carburine" and "Glico" motor spirit and motor oils, "Glico" turps, benzine, benzoline, benzol etc., solvent naphtha for paint and varnish manufacture" PS, can't get that link to work from here. So, 1895 - 1899?

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    cargeofg

    • 13/Nov/2020 18:44:10

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Well done you. I was looking for a Pratt's sign. Good spot and link to a newspaper advert. That will narrow the date right down..

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 13/Nov/2020 19:21:43

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Carburine, as used by the winner of the 1904 Gorden Bennett www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1904AH-Gas.jpg And here's a new one: Suppliers of "Heavy Motor Spirit" for steam cars!

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    silverio10

    • 13/Nov/2020 19:52:50

    Buenas fotos antiguas .

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 13/Nov/2020 21:29:00

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] It is a bad day you don't learn something. Will file that sign away in the memory banks for future use. Keep safe and have a good weekend.

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    suckindeesel

    • 14/Nov/2020 00:01:09

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] If you're looking for motorcycles in Hill St, www.historicalpicturearchive.com/shop/pictures/stationers.... which includes "The Frontier Motorcycle Works" Image quality is poor, however.

  • profile

    Flickr

    • 14/Nov/2020 04:15:33

    Congrats on Explore! ⭐ November 13, 2020

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    s0340248

    • 14/Nov/2020 05:32:51

    Glückwunsch zu Explore ! ! !

  • profile

    Listenwave Photography

    • 14/Nov/2020 08:37:09

    Congratulations on Explore! It’s really magical! It’s really great!Thank You All My Friends for NEW Flickr World! And Have a nice day!見性. From #Listenwave_Photography.

  • profile

    maczeug2

    • 14/Nov/2020 08:47:53

     Amazing picture! ;-)

  • profile

    incognito7nyc

    • 14/Nov/2020 10:18:41

    ✨🌟★❤✯♥✨ Very beautiful ✨♥✯❤★🌟✨

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    cargeofg

    • 15/Nov/2020 10:35:46

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Can't get it to link over but have a look in the Eason Collection for EAS_1454 and EAS_1439. Hill St again. Man pushing a m/cycle in 1454 and sign writer was busy in 1439

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 15/Nov/2020 10:59:16

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] George, here are the links for you EAS_1439 and EAS_1454 I have also included a link to Allowed Flickr HTML which will show you how to get the links working for yourself. Regards, Mary

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    cargeofg

    • 15/Nov/2020 14:13:15

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Thank you Sunday Mary.Kind regards George.

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    suckindeesel

    • 15/Nov/2020 14:17:23

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That's my kind of hardware shop, they seemed to sell everything! The poor biker may have been on his way to "The Frontier Motorcycle Works" or perhaps looking for a purveyor of Pratts?

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 15/Nov/2020 14:21:34

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] and they would still be open in Covid time!!

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 15/Nov/2020 17:32:35

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland That's if they were still there, unfortunately streetview shows some modern monstrosity in its place. I'm not too familiar with the east side of Newry, usually sticking to the Canal Court Hotel as a base on the west side. Must give it a look when things improve.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 13/Apr/2021 11:44:56

    O'Hagan Charles, Druggist, is in the 1907 directory. The 1910 lists O'Hagan and Hare, so this is 1895-1910 somewhere.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 13/Apr/2021 14:19:35

    No help with dates, but in the distance, I see CONVILLE on Sugar Island. The 1907 directory lists McConville, Miss, sub-postmistress, Sugar Island Post Office. 1901: Sugar Island branch office - Miss McConville, postmistress. And the 1901 census, and 1898 directory, 1895 but NOT 1892, when Mark J. Doyle was subpostmaster. But not in the 1911 census or 1912 directory. Ah, she died in February 1910 The Trimbles were post-officing in Sugar Island by the 1911 census. So Miss McConville fits more or less the same range, after 1892, before 1911.