Delegates at Lord Bessborough's

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A group of ladies and gentlemen gather on the steps of a grand house, and are described as “Delegates”? Delegates to what, for whom, and why? Where is Lord Bessborough’s house, and does it still stand?

Photographer: A. H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Collection, Waterford

Date: between ca. 1901 and 1954 February 1923 (thanks John Spooner)

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 1091

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 8765
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland lordbessborough house ladies gentlemen poolephotographiccollection bessboroughhouse piltown kilkenny leinster edwardponsonby 8thearlofbessborough

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  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 08:07:07

    Edward Ponsonby was 8th Earl of Bessborough from 1906 to 1920 (at thepeerage dot com.)

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    sharon.corbet

    • 04/Sep/2020 08:10:56

    They are at Bessborough House in Piltdown, Kilkenny.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 08:14:54

    OSI 25" of the colossal house.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 08:20:45

    The gent with the white whiskers could be Eddie, portrait here at the National Portrait Gallery (not ours, theirs!), from 1917.

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    John Spooner

    • 04/Sep/2020 08:48:41

    Bessborough House was burned down on Thursday 22nd February 1923. "The fire raged throughout Friday, the flames being visible for miles around. Everything in the residence was destroyed. ... Nothing but the charred walls remain of the once beautiful mansion" Kilkenny Moderator - Saturday 03 March 1923

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 09:45:31

    Per the NIAH: A very fine substantial house built to designs prepared by Francis Bindon (c.1698-1765) for Brabazon Ponsonby (1679-1768), first Earl of Bessborough, and subsequently reconstructed in the early twentieth century to designs prepared by Harold (Harry) Stuart Goodhart-Rendel (1887-1959) following an extensive fire retaining a porch added in the late nineteenth century by Sir Thomas Newenham Deane (1827-99). After reconstruction it was a convent and then from 1944 an agricultural college.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 09:50:20

    Squinting at the OSI map, I do not think this stairway and door were reconstructed.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 09:56:54

    Ah, this is the front door before the flat porch was added. See POOLEIMP 355, so pre-1899 if the NIAH is to be believed.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 10:11:13

    Per the DIA Name:DEANE, THOMAS MANLY (SIR) Building:CO. KILKENNY, BESSBOROUGH Date:? Nature:Alterations, including removing front steps and moving principal entrance to ground floor, new porch, conversion of original hall into sitting room. Refs:T.U. Sadleir & P.L. Dickinson, Georgian Mansions in Ireland (1915), 21

  • profile

    John A. Coffey

    • 04/Sep/2020 10:14:35

    Again not a hurl to be seen.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 10:16:37

    So the NIAH thinks Thomas Newenham Deane did the porch, and since he died in 1899 it must be earlier. But the DIA thinks it was his son, Thomas Manly Deane, and does not know the date. If we can date this image (by figuring out who the delegates were and when) we may answer the question. If that is Edward Ponsonby with white whiskers, I think it has to be after 1906.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 10:28:24

    No, here is a Poole dated 22/2/1905 with the porch: POOLEWP 0494. Definitely before that date, so probably not Edward.

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    Foxglove

    • 04/Sep/2020 10:49:59

    as for the "delegates", is this the earl/ or son of, who acted as a GB representative to Canada ? could some of this be a group of Canadian visitors

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    Swordscookie

    • 04/Sep/2020 14:33:40

    Since this is almost certainly the 8th Earl rather than the 9th then it had to be before 1920 when he died. The image of him in Wikipedia from 1904 shows a more virile individual than in this shot so probably later in his life than that. Those around him have a "foreign" look about them, especially those on his right and a couple of those behind him. They have a sallow or swarthy complexion and look Mediterranean or even slavic in appearance. Given his continued involvement in railways perhaps that is where the delegates came from seeking assistance or investment?

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    Swordscookie

    • 04/Sep/2020 14:38:16

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/foxglove The Earl who became Governor General of Canada did so in 1931 and lived until 1951 so this is not likely to have been him.

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    suckindeesel

    • 04/Sep/2020 16:34:51

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley The 25", survey date 1901, shows the steps as in our photo

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Sep/2020 17:01:30

    This is before 1905, so it is the 7th Earls time.

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    suckindeesel

    • 04/Sep/2020 17:13:11

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Another Poole showing porch, again dated 1905 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000590407

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    suckindeesel

    • 04/Sep/2020 17:29:50

    Photo of the seventh Earl (- 1906) www.findagrave.com/memorial/182226853/walter-william_brab...

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    suckindeesel

    • 04/Sep/2020 21:01:23

    Visitors book, dated 1909, showing porch i1.wp.com/theirishaesthete.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11...

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    suckindeesel

    • 04/Sep/2020 21:16:09

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8208680584/ Players cigarette card, 1910

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    Foxglove

    • 04/Sep/2020 22:20:31

    as ever I travel in time, but enlightened that I am with the younger side of the family

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    Joe Cashin Photography(Thanks for 11 Million views

    • 21/Sep/2020 08:38:27

    The house still stands, It is now Kildalton TEAGASC College