Simpler days
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Where: Munster, Waterford, Ireland
Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.
When: Unknown
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
I know that across the country, wedding ceremonies are being cancelled or heavily curtailed, because of this terrible virus. It must be causing great anguish to all involved. Today, we travel back to simpler times and present a very happy looking couple, I presume on the day of their wedding. I wonder who the other two people are? Siblings? Best man and bridesmaid? I am sure we will know before the morning is out. The photograph was commissioned by Mr. Thomas Hogan of 1 Doyle Street, Waterford.
Photographer: Poole Studio photographer
Collection: Poole Photographic Collection, Waterford
Date: Most likely 26th December 1945.
NLI Ref: POOLEWP 4512
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 11796
Photographer: Poole Studio photographer
Collection: Poole Photographic Collection, Waterford
Date: Most likely 26th December 1945.
NLI Ref: POOLEWP 4512
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 11796
ahpoole
arthurhenripoole
glassnegative
nationallibraryofireland
1doylestreet
waterford
cowaterford
munster
wedding
marriage
thomashogan
poolephotographiccollection
ireland
charlesblount
charlieblount
nancylemon
bridielemon
tomhogan
cie
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National Library of Ireland on The Commons
The real Morning Mary is away for a little vacation to celebrate a very significant wedding anniversary, I am sure you will join with me and all in Library Towers in wishing the lucky couple many more years of happiness together. The other Morning Mary
Paddywhack56
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Best wishes to them both...and to all in Library Towers, my first check-in on Flickr every morning.
derangedlemur
It's always the way in Poole photos: the witnesses look better than the couple. (Well, mostly just ten years younger).
BeachcomberAustralia
Happy Wedding Anniversary, Morning Mary! Congratulations!
BeachcomberAustralia
At least they swept the floor for this one.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
It seems strange to me that three of them are holding gloves?
BeachcomberAustralia
And the women have small books. Prayer books?
derangedlemur
They're an unusual shape for a Book of Common Prayer. Could be bibles. I've got a King James that's the same size and shape as the witness's book, and my grandad had one that could have been the bride's.
derangedlemur
Oh, and happy wedding anniversary, Morning Mary!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/paddywhack56 https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I am sure the Happy Couple will see your kind comments. NB - This is NOT a Photo of their wedding
sharon.corbet
Congratulations on the Wedding Anniversary, Morning Mary!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
I had a look for Hogan Weddings in 1945 but the Waterford records seem to me missing? We need https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy and https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet on this case.
derangedlemur
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Bernard can probably also identify the books.
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Unfortunately, 1945 is just too late for the wedding records - they've only released up to 1944 for privacy reasons. (100 years for births, 75 years for weddings and 50 years for deaths.)
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet I see, I will make a note to come back to this in Jan 2021.
Wendy:
Best wishes for your anniversary ---hope your wedding pics are less stilted than this!!
cargeofg
Best wishes and Happy Anniversary to the couple. Dare we ask any significant grade of metal or stone that may be appropriate for the day.
Carol Maddock
We love you, Morning Mary! Wishing you many more years of happiness... X p.s. Would pay good cash money to see your actual wedding photo. :)
cargeofg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] .....pay good cash money... Part of a line from John Wayne film Rooster Cogburn. We could have a virtual collecting pot for funds on the table beside the virtual sticky buns.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] It would be somewhere in the middle of Sapphire and Emerald! Let's keep away from cyber currencies and stick with the sticky buns!
cargeofg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Sticky Bun currency it is then. We don't want any Bits of Coin to contaminate proceedings here and Best Wishes to the couple for their special day.
Bernard Healy
Happy anniversary, Mary! I see Sharon has beaten me to it as to why this is a tricky one to answer. I decided to have a look at 1 Doyle Street & it's a small terraced house. goo.gl/maps/cH97MYDqisFVh2Zm8 If it's the groom's address, then we can presume that the the couple were less well-off than some of the fancier wedding portraits that we see. As regards the books, assuming that we're looking at a Catholic wedding, I would wager that they are probably hand-missals, or some other kind of prayer book. In the 1940s the prayers & readings of the Mass would have been in Latin. That meant that some people used prayer books to facilitate their prayers during Mass, whilst others used a hand missal. A prayer book is literally what it says - it would contain prayers and reflections of various kinds. A hand missal, on the other hand, was a particular kind of prayer book in that it contained English translations of the various prayers and readings from the Mass. The hand missal grew hugely in importance during the 1st half of the 20th century as the Catholic Church put more and more emphasis on people not simply praying at Mass, but praying with the Mass - i.e. appreciating the scripture readings and prayers that the priest was reciting in Latin. The push to use hand missals came about for a number of reasons. A greater degree of literacy & general education was one of them. A more focussed interest by theologians in scripture and the prayers used during the Mass was another. It formed part of what was called the 'liturgical movement' in the Catholic Church & this culminated in the reforms of the Second Vatican Council that encouaged a greater use of vernacular language during Mass & more emphasis on the proclaimation of the scriptures during Church services. The impact of these reforms and whether their concrete implementation was wholly faithful to the spirit that inspired them can be a neuralgic point for some Catholics & so I'll confine my commentary to the purely historical! I do have a few examples of these hand-missals from the first half of the century in my library - including one with an Irish translation of the old Latin Mass - and I can't quite say whether it's more likely that the books held by the women are missals or prayerbooks. If they were a little bulkier, then I'd be happier plumping for a missal. If they were a little smaller, I'd speculate that they were prayer books. As they are, I'm not sure. A few other things - you'll see that the bridesmaid seems to have some kind of a leaflet folded into her book. It was a great habit of the time to keep leaflets with favourite prayers & the 'mortuary'/'memorial' cards of deceased family & friends in one's missal or prayerbook. I'm sure that many of you will know someone in your family, perhaps of an earlier generation, who has stacks of leaflets and mortuary cards gathered together in a prayerbook or somewhere in the house. Secondly, when Lyndon B Johnson was sworn in as US President aboard Air Force One, he used JFK's hand missal because it was the first (and possibly only) religious book to hand at the time. Thirdly, based on what I've heard from older priests, it is quite possible that this couple were married in a very simple ceremony before or after one of the early morning Masses in a city Church. Now, they'd have had to arrange it beforehand, demonstrate their freedom to marry, and so on, but it was quite normal in busy urban parishes for several weddings to be arranged on a particular morning, and whatever priest was saying one of the early Masses would handle the exchange of vows & the blessing of whatever couples were booked in to marry that morning. Having a bigger/fancier wedding ceremony would have been the exception rather than the rule. One more observation - we can't see the ring on the bride's finger and it doesn't look like the groom is wearing one. Strictly speaking, the wedding ritual at the time makes mention of the bride wearing a ring. Both bride and groom having a ring blessed at their wedding was allowed by custom, but wasn't strictly required.
Bernard Healy
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Perhaps the gloves are because it was December? Note that the groom has a sweater on underneath his jacket.
derangedlemur
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy] Based on my guess at his age, I suspect his dad may have been a plasterer, so possibly not as posh as they might be on the groom's side. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Water...
derangedlemur
Incidentally, depending on which end and side they started counting from, there may have been Holligans in 1. Doyle Street in 1911, including a 13 year old Thomas who'd be 47 in 1945. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Water...
Foxglove
I have joined the covid-19 WFH sourdough culture. I can make congratulatory sticky buns for wedding baptisms and both bar and bat mitzvahs. Congrats for big numbers to morning Mary
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/foxglove I bet you have a Digitalis scales too!
Foxglove
yes I do and you are one of the few to make the association between foxglove and (digital) camera/photo, sticky buns all round, three quarks for NLI etc
oaktree_brian_1976
the two siting almost look like the parents of one or the other...
cargeofg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland https://www.flickr.com/photos/foxglove Could use beam balance scales from Kilbeggan as you would have to do a bulk mix for all the buns needed for everyone here.
DannyM8
I wonder if any of them owns a Dog? Happy Anniversary Morning Mary. Thank you for all the work you do on our behalf. Have a lovely holiday.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That would be no. 96 for Holligan? The Hogans didn't live in Doyle's St back in 1911 so the plastere's son seems the best match. I suppose the marriage of working class people didn't merit a mention in the local papers.
suckindeesel
The groom's residence goo.gl/maps/qjjveZEnsc7P3a5K8
derangedlemur
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] No 96 is the second last house the enumerator reached; it isn't necessarily no 96 on the street. if they started at the far end of the street and counted across and back, their number 96 would be the actual number 1. You can't tell because the only distinguishing feature is number of windows, and they both have 2.
ofarrl
I’m reliably informed that the man seated on the right is named Charlie Blount. He lived near my grandmother in Roanmore Park, Waterford in the 1970’s and 80’s and I actually did some plumbing work for him around 1983 I think.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Paul, that is good enough for me, I will tag and note Charlie Blount.
s_tevendaly
Yes that’s Charlie Blount from Roanmore Park on the right. He’s my Grandfather.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I didn't realise that that's how it worked, bit confusing that
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Hi Steve, we love to hear from relatives of the people who feature in our photos, have you any thoughts on who the others might be? Does Hogan ring a bell? Please feel free to post a comment about Charlie if you like. Mary
willi_pinheiro
This is an excellent Black and white Photo. Seen in Black & White Unlimited (pool) Your photo deserves a compliment from the special fish!!!
Please be sure your photo is TAGGED "Black & White"
Black and White unlimited (pool) post 1 comment 2
s_tevendaly
My mother thinks the groom was Tom Hogan, but she will find out and I’ll write back in. Charlie was originally from ballybricken and became a conductor with CIE. He married a Kilkenny woman named Mary Mcevoy and they lived in roanmore park. They were one of few Blount families in Ireland. He died in 1994 I think he was around 74 years old.
s_tevendaly
We located the original photo- the Groom is Tom Hogan, the bride is Bridie Lemon, the bridesmaid is Nancy Lemon. It was taken 26th of December 1946 and there was a code on the back- WP4512. I don’t have any info on the other people in the photo. Also Charlie was a road freight inspector for CIE not a conductor.
margaretmdaniels
I think Tom Hogan may have worked in CIE at some stage.. I’m another daughter of Charlie Blount.
ofarrl
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] well done, great to have all the names. My grandparents, Sam and Molly Lanigan, lived just up the street on the other side from Mr. and Mrs. Blount. Before that they lived in Doyle Street so I'm sure they knew all those people.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Brilliant work, I will tag all the names and insert notes on the photo itself. It is great that the reference you discovered matches ours!! I am surprised you are saying 1946 whereas our records suggest 1945.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I have set the date as 25th December 1946, let us know if you feel 1945 is more appropriate. Mary
BeachcomberAustralia
Aaah! Loving this! Amazing how a funny old photo can become so very precious with a bit of family history.
anneohalloran106
Yes that's my father Charlie Blount. He was a road freight inspector and I'm almost sure Tom Hogan worked in CIE and I think he lived in Tramore after he married.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks Anne, It is exciting to put some history and personal touches alongside the photographs in our collections. Mary
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] There is a another photograph in our collection titled "Group of three, commissioned by Mr. Thomas Blount, 10 Robinsons Lane, Waterford" Reference POOLED 5407 sadly it has not been digitised yet, I wonder was Thomas part of your family? The photograph is dated as circa 1918.
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland The marriage register index has it as 1st Quarter 1946, which would fit with a wedding in late December 1945. (The index isn’t particularly helpful as it only gives the location, quarter, and the names of 4 men and 4 women, with no details, and no indication of who married who.)
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Sharon, how do you know these things? I will revert to the 1945 date. Do the names match our notes? https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]
marian595
The ladies are sisters Bridie and Mary Lemon from Olaf Street Waterford Mary the bridesmaid was a tailoress as was her father which accounts for the smart clothes. The happy couple emigrated to London and had seven children tragedy struck when both parents died within 2 years of each other and two of the youngest children came ba k to live with their grandmother in Waterford. The Lemon family were originally Hugenot refugees fleeing persecution in France and offered safety by the English Government in Ireland. However after his sons emigrated to America in the late 1700's their father remarried to a Catholic... The famous film star Jack Lemon is descended from one of the 3 brothers who emigrated to the US and Mary and Bridie brother John 'Jack' Lemon was one of the men from Waterford who fought in the Spanish Civil War as a member of the Irish Brigade
marian595
By the way the Daly family is related to the Lemon family through Mrs Daly Rice Park Waterford who was originally a Keane from Stephen Street her mother was also a Lemon....
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland What I can see is a Thomas Hogan marrying one of: Brigid Lemon, Bernadetta Delicato, Ellen Griffin, Johanna Cotter in Waterford, and registered in Jan-March 1946. There’s no more detail - so it wasn’t enough to say for certain if this was “our” Thomas Hogan, let alone who he married. It does help to corroborate the brilliant info from the family members though. (I’ve bern helping my mothet do genealogical research, so I’ve a couple of accounts giving me access to stuff like the marriage index).
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Marion, thank you for all the information, I am sure one of our researchers will get all the details on the Jack Lemon connection.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet We must come back to this in January when the 1945 records go online.
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland I wouldn’t hold my breath - they haven’t been updating it on an annual basis. In fact, there’s only been one update since the site was launched in 2017, and that was January 2020, with 3 years of records. It may be 2023 before we see anything.
margaretmdaniels
Thomas Blount from Robinson’s Lane in Waterford was my grandfather, we are the only Blount family in Waterford and possibly even in Munster.
derangedlemur
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I think we've all spent a year or so drawing wrong conclusions from the census before we figured that one out.
derangedlemur
Great stuff from all the relations! I don't think we've ever got this many cognoscenti weighing in on a photo before.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks Margaret, we will see what can be done with the non digitised photo.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] It has to be up there with the best. Wedding photos seem to get people talking. We must try a few more from the 1940's.
Dr. Ilia
Superb shot