Square, Kilbeggan, Co. Westmeath

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Where: Leinster, County Westmeath, Ireland

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When: 01 May 1905

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Given you all did such a good job with Dunmanway yesterday, we have another square for you today This time we are in Kilbeggan. I remember we visited the distillery there a few years ago.

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: 1905 Probably May or June (thanks Niall McAuley)

NLI Ref: L_ROY_08264

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

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Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 8481
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio glassnegative nationallibraryofireland westmeath thesquare kilbeggan leinster dog posters horseandcart turf scales shops finlay moran johnkelly may1905 1905 1stmay1905 scrofuloustatterdemallions naggin lawrencephotographcollection

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  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 11/Aug/2020 06:40:10

    There is a real Dog today, NLI surpassing itself!

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Aug/2020 06:40:53

    Streetview, 25" map

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 11/Aug/2020 06:41:32

    Are the white collars and plus fours on the boys a school uniform?

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 11/Aug/2020 06:45:03

    A rare shot with dated posters in full view! Sale of a Prime Farm Public Auction Monday the 1st May 1905 Muster of the Clans, Old Offaly, Sunday 30th April 1905

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Aug/2020 06:46:35

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley We do try our best!

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Aug/2020 06:57:19

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley There seems to be significant changes to the Distillery buildings versus the streetview?

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 11/Aug/2020 07:54:28

    A neatly contemporaneous advert for the product of the building in the distance. Leinster Reporter - Saturday 03 June 1905 Leinster Reporter - Saturday 03 June 1905

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Aug/2020 07:58:59

    This happened the previous year, in March 1904, via Trove -

    VICTORIA. A GROOM'S INHERITANCE. MELBOURNE, Wednesday Mr. Joseph A. Scally, who for two years past has been employed at Eaglehawk as a groom, has received a cable message from Ireland, notifying him that his father, who was a wine and spirit merchant at Kilbeggan, had died suddenly, leaving him £16,000. Owing to a disagreement with his father, Scally left home several years ago to seek his fortune in Australia.
    See - trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14610265 £16,000 in 1904 is about £1.7 million now.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Aug/2020 08:14:36

    There is a shop called "James Scally" with sacks outside in this photo - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000318904

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Aug/2020 08:15:02

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Using your conversion rate that makes Whiskey £106 per Gallon! Always drink responsibly.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 11/Aug/2020 08:28:59

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] That is about right. www.measuringworth.com/calculators/ukcompare/ *slurps a glass of chateau cardboard with his pizza*

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 11/Aug/2020 08:50:26

    No Pratt's Motor Spirit today but well framed view of where they distil spirit for human consumption.

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 11/Aug/2020 09:01:13

    A 750ml (75cl) bottle of Lockes 8year old whiskey is Stg£44.95 so that is £64.21 per litre multiply by 4.54 = £291.51 a gallon. " Rushes off to find an old pound note and they can deliver to C/O Aberystwyth Stn as Beeching shut Tregaron Stn."

  • profile

    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 11/Aug/2020 09:09:20

    www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Tripod for a very tall Photographer

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 11/Aug/2020 09:11:25

    catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000318904 Tripod is a fixture in the Square as it is used to hang a beam balance scales on. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/cassidyphotography] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia]

  • profile

    aidanhodson

    • 11/Aug/2020 09:19:20

    I see the shop on the corner has what looks like a Pierce Beet Pulper for sale commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pierce%27s_of_Wexford_t...

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 11/Aug/2020 10:10:27

    Never mind gallons, I've learned a new word today - naggin. In court cases involving Locke's whiskey being adulterated, the volume of the containing vessel is always expressed in naggins. "How on earth could he not know that!?!" I hear being shouted at computer screens all over Ireland.

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 11/Aug/2020 10:12:59

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Doesn't Y Talbot stock it? [Unveiling of the Henry Richard monument, Tregaron]

  • profile

    rpgvlwqt88

    • 11/Aug/2020 10:15:48

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] fewnagginsbegrand.tumblr.com/

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 11/Aug/2020 10:47:47

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] You beat me to it. Though are you allowed to say "fewnagginsbegrand" without also including #hontheparish?

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 11/Aug/2020 11:04:52

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Thank you. I feel my education has been advanced considerably this morning. Meanwhile, I'll keep away from Publick Houfes on the Coalquay Hibernian Journal; or, Chronicle of Liberty - Monday 02 May 1774 (Hibernian Journal; or, Chronicle of Liberty - Monday 02 May 1774)

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 11/Aug/2020 11:53:08

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I will have to ask next time I am in. They just reopened last Monday and you are not allowed to go to bar. Waitress service for drinks. I know they have it in The Glengower in Aber with a good selection of other malts. Naggin bottle nice handy flat shape to fit in your inside pocket. Your now metric 750ml bottle would in the past be a 5 naggin bottle..

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 11/Aug/2020 12:22:33

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia "Despite the best medical care, after a brief illness Mr James Scally, merchant, Kilbeggan, passed away on Tuesday 8th December, at the age of 62." (Leinster Reporter - Saturday 19 December 1903). From the list of mourners (1 son and 1 son in law) plus a daughter who wasn't present), I reckon he had at least four children, and a widow, so was the £16,000 just a share of his estate? The wine and spirit business must have been very lucrative (which brings us back to the price of a naggin).

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 12:33:46

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I think that would be equivalent to £20 per bottle in today's money

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 12:35:25

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/cassidyphotography He would have to stand on tippy toes!

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 12:42:05

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner A handy size for the hip pocket, very discreet, 200 ml. As Wiki says 'Naggins, particularly of cheap vodka, are very popular among youths, under-age drinkers and students. They are often implicated in binge drinking' Not that I believe a word of that.

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 11/Aug/2020 13:43:59

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] As I said above also handy for inside jacket pocket. As for under age drinking of vodka. That is another set of schoolboy tales from the 70s.

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 11/Aug/2020 14:05:48

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] And no doubt favoured by scrofulous tatterdemallions with their ill-gotten gains Scrofulous tatterdemallions

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Aug/2020 15:52:51

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner I have tagged scrofulous tatterdemallions and naggin. They remind me of https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] , sometimes the former always the latter!

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 16:24:01

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] See Queen: The Fairy Fellers Master-Stroke youtu.be/IGNILpVcgz4

  • profile

    rpgvlwqt88

    • 11/Aug/2020 16:46:49

    a naggin is 200ml and a shoulder 350ml. They always have a particular distinctive shaped bottle At one stage Absolut vodka looked to enter the Irish market and break with tradition by producing a round shaped bottle. As far as I know this is still being produced https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/5768336615/in/photolist-9MJevz-82agos-8mtRFt-FomwZS-7RHxEf-8rUZUs-gLRJNh-5Ggib4-4nXdwu-byuhGq-a8KZq7-23yT4Jd-M6J7vr-23YTE1n-oNYyCX-59mgZT-LxG9SH-wERjKx-Yx8Kh-78Ynes-bibrWa-xATK17-xBHP1t-wP9Wg7-8tj8Dr-5KjrFf-8PPLYW-SEx9kx-RqyEVZ-2FUHaf-5F9XPk-5AnvQs-casHq-76qjnR-7L4Y4d-2YsDYx-5pjKqy-d2XGfY-57hzPD-5AieXD-ektcfU-ouyb17-xSom5-xk7zKb-xk7nf1-xATTjm-xk7Kz9-xAU82b-wEH6vU-xzppoN

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 17:15:09

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley The old distillery closed in 1958 only becoming fully operational again in 2010 under Cooley. In the interim, all the stills were sold off for scrap and the earthenware whiskey containers all broken and used for infill for the floor of what became a pigsty. Incredible to believe such vandalism, but the various subsequent owners were only interested in selling off the valuable whiskey stock. So it's no wonder that it doesn't resemble its original appearance.

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 17:16:19

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] The flat bottle is yer only man

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 17:21:38

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Anbody remember the 'Baby Power'? the original miniature (71-ml)

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Aug/2020 17:41:13

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Very interesting indeed. I do remember the imperial measures used for whiskey in the past, the baby power was equal to 2 halves or a glass of whiskey, a naggin was equal to 2.5 baby powers and there were 2 naggins in a half bottle or 4 in a full bottle, the full bottle contained 26.666 fluid ounces.

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 20:41:30

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland That old ad above says 12 bottles/2-galllons, which works out at 75.76 cl per bottle, which is practically identical to today's metric 75 cl per bottle. What killed Lockes was a combination of civil unrest during the 20s, prohibition in the US, shipping disruption during WW2, a trade war with the UK and finally the imposition of a 28% hike in the excise duties on spirits, PS I should have said identical in size to a modern wine bottle, making it bigger than a modern spirit it bottle at 70 cl

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 11/Aug/2020 20:44:01

    Yet another shot of a lost market square which didn't survive gentrification and modern traffic, seeing a trend here?

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 11/Aug/2020 21:41:44

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Baby Power. I remember them but Powers was not a tipple I liked. VAT 57 was another one you could get as a Baby. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland I thought a full size bottle was 5 Naggins ?

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 11/Aug/2020 22:46:58

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] You could be 100% correct, that would make 2 x babies equal to the old naggin?

  • profile

    Carol Maddock

    • 12/Aug/2020 08:39:11

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland How very dare you! I'll give you scrofulous...

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 12/Aug/2020 08:39:22

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Introducing the "GILL", another invisible archaic unit of measure, still in daily use Although now sold in 200ml metric sizes, a naggin was one gill / quater pint (142ml), a baby is still sold in half gill / one eight pint (71ml) size. An Irish "half" is 1/4 gill, an English "half" is smaller at 1/5 gill. So, 5. naggins equals 710ml, slightly more than a bottle. A baby equals one Irish glass or two small ones

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 12/Aug/2020 08:48:55

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Gills And Optic measures. When I went to work in England I then found out that the English optic measure was different from Irish. English was 1/6 of a gill as far as I remember and Irish was 1/4 gill.

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 12/Aug/2020 08:55:37

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia It was only this morning I had a closer look at tripod and spotted the beam was in place in this photo. I had mistook it as a lintel or wood moulding/sign over the window and door of the building in the background. You could see the odd one in a market square up into late 1960s.

  • profile

    rpgvlwqt88

    • 12/Aug/2020 08:58:10

    My own favourite is the American measure of the handle. A handle of liquor holds 59.2 fluid ounces, or 1.75 liters. So called because it has an inbuilt handle - although I understand you can get them without the physical handle and they are still called a handle. Forever immortalized in the song Do it again by Steely Dan. "Now you swear and kick and beg us that you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas with a handle in your hand Your black cards can make you money so you hide them when you're able In the land of milk and honey you must put them on the table You go back, Jack, do it again, wheels turinin' 'round and 'round You go back, Jack, do it again" https://www.flickr.com/photos/alc4/2667591459/

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 12/Aug/2020 11:57:24

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] You could be right about the English spirit measure. However, the English beer measure makes up for the spirit measure shortfall. An English pint glass is a pint of beer plus head, see the pint mark below the lip, whereas an Irish pint glass is just that, a pint including the head. Try pouring a pint bottle into an Irish pint glass, it won't fit.

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 12/Aug/2020 12:36:38

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] According to this UK government site www.gov.uk/weights-measures-and-packaging-the-law/specifi... a spirit measure is either 25ml and multiples of 25ml, or 35ml and multiples of 35ml (not both on the same premises) So perhaps have finally gone metric. About the only things still sold by the pint are reusable milk bottles and beer

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 12/Aug/2020 16:10:50

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland The old 26.66 fl oz bottle works out at 75.76 cl, same as in the old Locke ad and almost identical to the modern wine bottle. Bigger than our modern spirit bottle at 75 cl.

  • profile

    RETRO STU

    • 17/Sep/2020 13:01:41

    John Locke distillery.