Fishing for souls in Limerick

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Where: Munster, Limerick, Ireland

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When: Unknown

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The Sacred Heart Church AKA “The Jesuits” in the Crescent in Limerick City is today’s image from the Lawrence Collection. An unusual church, in that it doesn’t have a steeple, a tower, or anything higher than the statue in the front. Given the passage of time and the changes in vocations, is it still there?

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 1865 - 1914

NLI Ref: L_ROY_08113

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 10933
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio glassnegative nationallibraryofireland sacredheartchurch thecrescent limerickcity societyofjesus jesuits crescentcollege danieloconnell oconnellmonument cordijesusacratissimo limerick munster ireland westwardho guyslimerickdirectory lawrencephotographcollection

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  • profile

    Swordscookie

    • 19/Jun/2020 07:41:10

    Hallelujah! Limerick finally gets a look in! The "Jesuits" is all we ever knew this as not the "Sacred Heart". It was situated in the "Crescent" right in the heart of the city and I don't think I ever saw it so quiet in daylight. Right beside the church was the Crescent College where the Jesuits provided education for the privileged in the community. Some luminaries went to school there including Donagh O'Malley former Minister for Education, his nephew Dessie O'Malley opponent of Haughey and many times Minister and indeed Donagh's son Darragh the actor. The Jesuits were in Limerick for almost 500 years but as far as I know are all gone from there now!

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 19/Jun/2020 08:10:55

    "The Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest " ? Statue of Daniel O'Connell to left

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 19/Jun/2020 08:11:24

    Ooo! It's orange ! Streetview - goo.gl/maps/4mFQ7xvie4mhsUjK6

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    Carol Maddock

    • 19/Jun/2020 08:39:08

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie Steady now, Sean, think of your blood pressure! We should prescribe sedatives for you before posting any Limerick photographs... :)

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 19/Jun/2020 08:44:14

    Previously - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/5691906208/

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 19/Jun/2020 08:49:20

    The Eason photo above is slightly later due to the higher creeper at the left end of the terrace.

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    suckindeesel

    • 19/Jun/2020 08:52:23

    Movie poster for "Westward Ho", the 1919 version, not the later John Wayne version.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 19/Jun/2020 08:54:01

    Flickr is sometimes amazing! https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley/ is always amazing! In 2019 https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley/47133487551/

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Jun/2020 09:07:02

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I wouldn't be sure about that 1919 poster. It's a few years too late for a Lawrence photo...

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    Foxglove

    • 19/Jun/2020 09:42:22

    next to the poster for westward ho is a shop sigh for John Hayes builder ..... was it a humourous twist to have the westward ho poster next to a Jesuit church

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    cargeofg

    • 19/Jun/2020 10:00:04

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/swordscookie Also one Michael Terence Wogan attended Crescent Collage and later went to Belvedere Collage.

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    suckindeesel

    • 19/Jun/2020 10:11:11

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Yes,I woderd about that myself, at least I didn't think it was the 1935 John Wayne version. If it is indeed a movie poster, perhaps someone could work out a plausible name.

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Jun/2020 10:44:29

    W.D. & H.O. Wills were advertising their "new smoking mixture" named "Westward Ho!" in 1880 (in the Western Times but also presumably many other newspapers). The KE on the top of the poster could be the end of an invocation to SMOKE. Westward Ho! tobacco signs

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 19/Jun/2020 10:58:59

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Give that man a cigar!

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Jun/2020 10:59:55

    Judging from newspaper adverts, Westward Ho! tobacco was available from about 1879 to about 1895

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Jun/2020 11:07:53

    Westward Ho! anecdote: In 1962 or 1963 we had a family summer holiday in the small Devon coastal village Westward Ho! On return to school we had to write about what we had done in our holidays and I duly recounted the tale of our trip, being sure to spell the name correctly and completely including the exclamation mark. The teacher put a big red line through it. I didn't argue, but smiled inwardly at my knowledge being superior to that of the teacher.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 19/Jun/2020 11:57:48

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] Ho ho! The builder John Hayes was about to build this large building (now a Tutorial College) in both photos - goo.gl/maps/6L1RfXa9w1KULYqPA - should be an earlier than date ...

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 19/Jun/2020 12:18:22

    Aha! Limerick Museum have a postcard of this image posted 27 May 1910 (at 3.30pm) - museum.limerick.ie/index.php/Detail/Object/Show/object_id... So before May 1910 ... Ed. Found via this Wiki page on Crescent College - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_College , which includes - "In 1862 the Jesuits acquired Crescent House and three neighbouring buildings towards the southern end of the Georgian Crescent. Crescent House was a large city residence which had been vacated by a local banking family, the Russells. By tradition Mr Richard Russell, while in residence, had ordered all the blinds of the house closed so he wouldn't have to look upon John Hogan's statute of Daniel O'Connell, recently erected in the middle of the Crescent. ... ..."

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 19/Jun/2020 12:39:19

    Oh the Jesuits were brutal. My fatherb told stories of running away from a Jesuit orphanage, more than once, in Wakefield.

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    rpgvlwqt88

    • 19/Jun/2020 13:05:40

    Why oh why did they get rid of 1. The beautiful lampost, 2. The ornate light outside the college and 3. the four lamps surrounding Dan

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    rpgvlwqt88

    • 19/Jun/2020 13:09:32

    There is only one other complete Georgian Crescent in Ireland at Marino Crescent. One surrounding the Custom house in Dublin is partially complete and the other one planned at the other end of Gardiner Street where the Mater Hospital is now never even started. There is also one Regency Crescent in Belfast which I understand is currently being renovated and partially converted into plush apartments (long overdue)

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    rpgvlwqt88

    • 19/Jun/2020 13:14:36

    In the back left there appears to be an advert for "GUYS" Possibly Guys Limerick Directory which I have used for research before. I know there were versions made in 1912, 1913 and 1914 that I can find online [www.limerickcity.ie/Library/LocalStudies/TradesStreetDire...]

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Jun/2020 14:12:51

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Guy's was also at various times from the 1853* onwards a stationer, bookbinder, newspaper publisher and photographer** with a studio at 114 George Street (and no doubt much else besides). *In 1854 they thanked their customers after 12 months' business. **A family portrait, beautifully finished, in a handsome gilt frame, with 3 cabinet photographs, for 10s 6d (1888)

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    John Spooner

    • 19/Jun/2020 14:16:12

    Limerick and Cork [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] is invariably amazing 70 Patrick Street, Cork

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    suckindeesel

    • 19/Jun/2020 18:07:56

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/cassidyphotography "“I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits", said Hitler. "Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party... I am going to let you in on a secret... I am founding an Order... In my "Burgs" of the Order, we will raise up a youth which will make the world tremble... "

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    suckindeesel

    • 19/Jun/2020 21:09:52

    The first public monument to O'Connell www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/21517...

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 12:30:51

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] The absence of a traditional spire or tower is due to the origins of the site. The Jesuits bought two of the terraced buildings and built their church within and to the rear. You can see a bay of one of these original buildings immediately to the right of the facade. According to NIAH the elaborate facade that we see in the photo was added in 1900 www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/21517... The 25" of 1900 (sheet LK005-14) shows a completed building on the corner of Newenham St., while our photo only shows the John Hayes building site. The current building at the corner dates from 1945 Slightly contradictory. Westward Ho appears to have been a common phrase back then: a 1878 brand of tobacco which got its name from a novel by Kingsley,: "...for when all things were made none was made better than this ; to be a lone man's companion, a bachelor's friend, a hungry man's food, a sad man's cordial, a wakeful man's sleep, and a chilly man's fire, Sir ; while for stanching of wounds, purging of rheum, and settling of the stomach, there's no herb like unto it under the canopy of heaven.', permission was given by Macmillan & Co. to reproduce the excerpt as long as the todacco was of good quality, several ships including one from 1900, a short movie re "The Arrival of S.S. Westward Ho in Harbour, a play and even a British steam loco of the period, etc I can't tell if the street lighting is gas or electric, but I don't think that they had electric street lighting before 1902.

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 14:20:08

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Brothers, W.D. and H.O. were both non-smokers

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    John Spooner

    • 20/Jun/2020 14:30:38

    suckindeesel I read that too. Another thing I read somewhere was that Westward Ho! tobacco was advertised in The Lancet.

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 16:48:32

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner “20,679 Physicians say ‘LUCKIES are less irritating’ 1930 add

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 17:20:10

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] The lamps surrounding Dan probably vanished when the fountain was installed c. 2000

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 17:45:19

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Your Devon village and the tobacco both owe their name to Kingsley's 1855 novel

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 17:48:58

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/foxglove Kingsley, author of Westward Ho!, was rabidly anti-Jesuit and anti Irish

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    John Spooner

    • 20/Jun/2020 18:37:13

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ I saw a newspaper article (which I can't find any more) about a Roman Catholic priest who wanted it banned.

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 20:23:43

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] Well, they were a great crowd for banning things, but here's a taster: "Kingsley wrote in a letter to his wife from Ireland in 1860, telling her: ‘I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country ... to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black one would not see it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as white as ours.’ " www.patrickcomerford.com/2017/07/westward-ho-takes-me-fro...

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    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 20:57:01

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia John Hayes sign visible in the Eason, but no sign of Westward Ho! I don't think that is same building as the current 1945 one, which joins the existing Terrace. The one shown in the 25" is separate with a lane between

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 20/Jun/2020 21:51:01

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That makes sense. We had another Limerick photo a long while back which shows similar electric street lamps (see note) beside the old gas lamps, ie when they were new. I cannot find anything online about the history of streetlamps in Limerick. Anyone have access to old Limerick newspapers? The lamps will provide a 'later than' date. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/5260847546

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 22:38:53

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] The link to street lighting in your photo of Limerick returns a '404', i.e.dead. So, try this instead, via the magic of the way back machine web.archive.org/web/20140715100100/http://www.limerickcit... Anyway, 1902 marked the changeover from gas. www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley/ See your link to street lighting above, which gives an earliest of 1902. Was there anything in that later Eason to provide an end date?

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 20/Jun/2020 22:51:17

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia That building at end of street looks different in the later Eason, its lower half appears lighter. perhaps that's what our builder was doing rather than a new building.

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 21/Jun/2020 08:42:47

    The electric public lighting gives an earliest possible date of 1902. The "missing building" at end of terrace is a red herring as it was demolished before our photo. The new finish on building on other corner as evident in later Eason is probably the work of builder John Hayes whose sign is present in both photos EAS_2786 Is only slghtly later, going by the growth of ivy, as [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] points out. The Eason shows St Josephs church, not quite finished, per www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley/. 1904 or a bit earlier The new finish on corner building looks finished in Eason, only starting in ours, placing our photo later in the possible date range. So propose c. 1903

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    J.W Photographic Collection.

    • 21/Jun/2020 23:00:02

    I much prefer this version of Limerick.

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    oye411

    • 22/Jun/2020 00:31:44

    Excellent vintage pictures. Recording history is important.

  • profile

    Dr. Ilia

    • 30/Jun/2020 08:00:08

    WOW! Amazing shot!