Ladders for salmon and stairways to heaven - what next?
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Where: N Ireland, Fermanagh and Omagh, UK
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When: Unknown
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Well from one place of religious significance to another! Those who spend their time fishing will identify with the gentleman standing on the rocks overlooking the salmon ladder in Belleek and the pleasure it must give him to see them climb to the lake? It looks enormous but was it natural or man made?
Photographer: Robert French
Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection
Date: Circa 1865 - 1914
NLI Ref: L_CAB_04713
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 13138
Photographer: Robert French
Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection
Date: Circa 1865 - 1914
NLI Ref: L_CAB_04713
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
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Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 13138
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nationallibraryofireland
salmonladder
belleek
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northernireland
ulster
jaunty
fishrace
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limerickbybeachcomber
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DannyM8
Is that Jaunty?
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Possibly? https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/31636807885
Carol Maddock
The salmon fishery at Belleek came up for sale at the Landed Estates Court in Dublin in July 1867. It was...
(Freeman’s Journal, 20 June 1867) Eels too. But they’re not sexy, so you don’t hear about eel ladders?ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
First impression is that it is Mr Jaunty. Which might put the photo in the early 1880s?
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Print on ebay - www.ebay.ca/itm/W-L-UK-Belleek-Salmon-Ladder-Vintage-albu...
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Is this at the same position as the salmon leap? Why leap if you can climb the ladder! - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6606511201/
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia I'm not sure. I've been trying to figure out where the salmon ladder was, but am hampered a bit by (i) the 25" map stops existing at the NI border (ii) multiple changes over the years to the river Erne around here - including hydroelectric power stations (iii) my apparent inability to remember that rivers flow towards the sea.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] Glad it is not just me who is confused! There is something fishy going on ... The weir (above) seems to have been built in 1883. Wonder if it was not yet built when Jaunty visited? Hence no photos of it. Ed. Red herring! Details of the workings of the weir - books.google.com.au/books?id=kImFBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA115&am...
sharon.corbet
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] I think we're just to the right of where the weir will be. Using a collection of photos - this one shows an earlier version of the building on the right here. I think that it's the same building in the middle in this one. Whereas an earlier version of the building on the left in that last photo can be seen on the right in this one. The river looks a bit different in each of them, but the last one shows the bridge and the weir, so helps to position it.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Another red herring but interesting - EagleView - goo.gl/maps/JgLakohqJeb8tMp5A
sharon.corbet
So I think we're here, looking at the channel between Belleek Island and Belleek Dairy. (I'm assuming that's the newish looking building in the later photos, with the building in this photo behind it.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Brilliant! That metal bridge in the background (see note) is seen in the third of your photos - a railway bridge?
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet "my apparent inability to remember that rivers flow towards the sea."? A degree in engineering would have been a great help?
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia No, I think it's just the bridge to Belleek Island - you can see it on the 25".
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Obviously the wrong type of engineering on my part. Chemical engineers don't have to worry about rivers and stuff.😃
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia In fact, if you turn around in your Eagleview, you can see the metal bridge to the island.
abandoned railways
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia . The overgrown bridge on the right is a railway viaduct. 1866
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] Try the PRONI maps apps.spatialni.gov.uk/PRONIApplication/
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I was using the PRONI maps too. But it is still difficult trying to line the two up properly.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland But don't forget the Aral Sea and its supply rivers.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Flickr is sometimes amazing! It was also known as the "fish race" Pre 1908 via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/internetarchivebookimages/][https://www.flickr.com/photos/internetarchivebookimages/14778030374/] From that Donegal guidebook online - the blurb has details of fishing licences and bag limit etc - archive.org/stream/picturesquedoneg00shru/picturesquedone...
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Sharon, I keep clicking through to the Geohive map from when you say “So I think we're here...” but I just get to a generic map of Ireland...
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Yeah, I realised I did that, went to fix it and then got distracted. Fixed now!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Much obliged!
suckindeesel
All I can find are refs to eel weirs below Beleek and not salmon. Sometime not so idyllic: Further downriver, in the tidal estuary, became a 1927 test case between the powers of the fledgling state and the UK's Privy Council "Documents dating back to the C17 plantation were examined; even the Brehon Laws and Magna Carta were invoked. The case was decided in favour of the fishermen. The Erne Fishery Company appealed to the English Privy Council. A special Act was introduced in the Dail overnight, ending the right of appeal from the Supreme Court to the Privy Council. The case also created an international legal incident in that it caused the Privy Council to set up a judicial committee to consider if the Irish government had the power to deny it the right of appeal. The committee held that under a statute of Westminster 1931 it had indeed such power, and so the case ended in victory for the local fishermen. " The 6-inch of 1836 shows pre-partition
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia I think that 'bridge' must be the Beleek sluice gates, used to regulate the water level in Lough Erne. It was located just upstream of the pottery. I wonder if the two photos were taken at right angles to each other. PS. Could that be the lattice work of the sluice just visible beyond the rocks, middle left background, in our photo. Location could be between Beleek Island and White Island. The river probably changed over time, which could give a time frame from the OS, if location was ID'd
suckindeesel
Just a guess 54°28'32"N 8°05'24"W earth.app.goo.gl/MDDyXb #googleearth southern shore of river
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] As I said above, I think it’s between Belleek Island and the bank of the river. https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia’s picture above shows the sluice gates which are between Rose Island and Belleek Island - just upstream of the bridge.
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] AbeBooks claims 1880, for what it's worth. www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=22386416562&a... Could,that possibly be the top of the sluice gates peeping over the rocks in the background?
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I think that’s the metal bridge to Belleek Island instead. See the third photo I linked to above which is obviously later, but shows the Belleek Bridge, and the sluice gates.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet I'll have to review the earlier comments to come up to speed. By the way, that's an albumin print for sale on Abe's site. Does that date it somewhat?
silverio10
Buenas fotos antiguas .
Dr. Ilia
Very nice work
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I have no idea about the dates for various photography/printing technologies, I'm afraid.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Damn, you made me look it up for myself. It was the first commercially exploitable method of producing a photographic print on a paper base from a negative. It used the albumen found in egg whites to bind the photographic chemicals to the paper and became the dominant form of photographic positives from 1855 to the start of the 20th century, with a peak in the 1860-90 period. Wiki You can still attend classes in this technique, Covid permitting So, an albumen print of our photo could indicate a date range
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Gone, but not forgotten! - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000325014