Ladders for salmon and stairways to heaven - what next?

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Where: N Ireland, Fermanagh and Omagh, UK

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When: Unknown

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Well from one place of religious significance to another! Those who spend their time fishing will identify with the gentleman standing on the rocks overlooking the salmon ladder in Belleek and the pleasure it must give him to see them climb to the lake? It looks enormous but was it natural or man made?

Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Circa 1865 - 1914

NLI Ref: L_CAB_04713

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

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Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 8807
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio glassnegative nationallibraryofireland salmonladder belleek cofermanagh northernireland ulster jaunty fishrace fermanagh ireland salmon eels limerickbybeachcomber lawrencephotographcollection

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  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 18/Jun/2020 08:02:01

    Is that Jaunty?

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 18/Jun/2020 08:04:55

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Possibly? https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/31636807885

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    Carol Maddock

    • 18/Jun/2020 08:20:54

    The salmon fishery at Belleek came up for sale at the Landed Estates Court in Dublin in July 1867. It was...

    held by fee-farm grant, all lessed to tenants, and producing together a net annual rental of £1,094 4s. 7d., on which there will be a very large increase on the expiration of the existing tenants’ leases, which are now subsisting only for one life, aged about 70 years ... The railway from Enniskillen to Bundoran has stations at Ballyshannon and Belleek, and there is now direct railway communication from these towns to Dundalk and Dublin, affording greatly increased facilities for conveying the salmon and eels to the English markets, and adding considerably to the value of the Fisheries.
    (Freeman’s Journal, 20 June 1867) Eels too. But they’re not sexy, so you don’t hear about eel ladders?

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 18/Jun/2020 08:50:37

    First impression is that it is Mr Jaunty. Which might put the photo in the early 1880s?

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 18/Jun/2020 09:22:49

    Print on ebay - www.ebay.ca/itm/W-L-UK-Belleek-Salmon-Ladder-Vintage-albu...

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 18/Jun/2020 09:28:32

    Is this at the same position as the salmon leap? Why leap if you can climb the ladder! - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6606511201/

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 09:48:12

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia I'm not sure. I've been trying to figure out where the salmon ladder was, but am hampered a bit by (i) the 25" map stops existing at the NI border (ii) multiple changes over the years to the river Erne around here - including hydroelectric power stations (iii) my apparent inability to remember that rivers flow towards the sea.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:04:37

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] Glad it is not just me who is confused! There is something fishy going on ... The weir (above) seems to have been built in 1883. Wonder if it was not yet built when Jaunty visited? Hence no photos of it. Ed. Red herring! Details of the workings of the weir - books.google.com.au/books?id=kImFBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA115&am...

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:23:39

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] I think we're just to the right of where the weir will be. Using a collection of photos - this one shows an earlier version of the building on the right here. I think that it's the same building in the middle in this one. Whereas an earlier version of the building on the left in that last photo can be seen on the right in this one. The river looks a bit different in each of them, but the last one shows the bridge and the weir, so helps to position it.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:25:42

    Another red herring but interesting - EagleView - goo.gl/maps/JgLakohqJeb8tMp5A

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:30:51

    So I think we're here, looking at the channel between Belleek Island and Belleek Dairy. (I'm assuming that's the newish looking building in the later photos, with the building in this photo behind it.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:31:54

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Brilliant! That metal bridge in the background (see note) is seen in the third of your photos - a railway bridge?

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:36:45

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet "my apparent inability to remember that rivers flow towards the sea."? A degree in engineering would have been a great help?

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:37:02

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia No, I think it's just the bridge to Belleek Island - you can see it on the 25".

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:39:55

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Obviously the wrong type of engineering on my part. Chemical engineers don't have to worry about rivers and stuff.😃

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 10:43:47

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia In fact, if you turn around in your Eagleview, you can see the metal bridge to the island.

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    abandoned railways

    • 18/Jun/2020 11:47:21

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia . The overgrown bridge on the right is a railway viaduct. 1866

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    suckindeesel

    • 18/Jun/2020 11:50:32

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] Try the PRONI maps apps.spatialni.gov.uk/PRONIApplication/

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 11:53:29

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I was using the PRONI maps too. But it is still difficult trying to line the two up properly.

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    suckindeesel

    • 18/Jun/2020 11:57:26

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland But don't forget the Aral Sea and its supply rivers.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 18/Jun/2020 14:11:02

    Flickr is sometimes amazing! It was also known as the "fish race" Pre 1908 via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/internetarchivebookimages/][https://www.flickr.com/photos/internetarchivebookimages/14778030374/] From that Donegal guidebook online - the blurb has details of fishing licences and bag limit etc - archive.org/stream/picturesquedoneg00shru/picturesquedone...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 18/Jun/2020 16:02:24

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Sharon, I keep clicking through to the Geohive map from when you say “So I think we're here...” but I just get to a generic map of Ireland...

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 16:07:13

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Yeah, I realised I did that, went to fix it and then got distracted. Fixed now!

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 18/Jun/2020 16:16:14

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Much obliged!

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    suckindeesel

    • 18/Jun/2020 17:58:11

    All I can find are refs to eel weirs below Beleek and not salmon. Sometime not so idyllic: Further downriver, in the tidal estuary, became a 1927 test case between the powers of the fledgling state and the UK's Privy Council "Documents dating back to the C17 plantation were examined; even the Brehon Laws and Magna Carta were invoked. The case was decided in favour of the fishermen. The Erne Fishery Company appealed to the English Privy Council. A special Act was introduced in the Dail overnight, ending the right of appeal from the Supreme Court to the Privy Council. The case also created an international legal incident in that it caused the Privy Council to set up a judicial committee to consider if the Irish government had the power to deny it the right of appeal. The committee held that under a statute of Westminster 1931 it had indeed such power, and so the case ended in victory for the local fishermen. " The 6-inch of 1836 shows pre-partition

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    suckindeesel

    • 18/Jun/2020 21:08:53

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia I think that 'bridge' must be the Beleek sluice gates, used to regulate the water level in Lough Erne. It was located just upstream of the pottery. I wonder if the two photos were taken at right angles to each other. PS. Could that be the lattice work of the sluice just visible beyond the rocks, middle left background, in our photo. Location could be between Beleek Island and White Island. The river probably changed over time, which could give a time frame from the OS, if location was ID'd

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    suckindeesel

    • 18/Jun/2020 21:37:42

    Just a guess 54°28'32"N 8°05'24"W earth.app.goo.gl/MDDyXb #googleearth southern shore of river

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 21:47:20

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] As I said above, I think it’s between Belleek Island and the bank of the river. https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia’s picture above shows the sluice gates which are between Rose Island and Belleek Island - just upstream of the bridge.

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    suckindeesel

    • 18/Jun/2020 21:54:01

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] AbeBooks claims 1880, for what it's worth. www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=22386416562&a... Could,that possibly be the top of the sluice gates peeping over the rocks in the background?

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Jun/2020 21:58:08

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I think that’s the metal bridge to Belleek Island instead. See the third photo I linked to above which is obviously later, but shows the Belleek Bridge, and the sluice gates.

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    suckindeesel

    • 18/Jun/2020 22:04:20

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet I'll have to review the earlier comments to come up to speed. By the way, that's an albumin print for sale on Abe's site. Does that date it somewhat?

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    silverio10

    • 18/Jun/2020 22:20:28

    Buenas fotos antiguas .

  • profile

    Dr. Ilia

    • 19/Jun/2020 08:00:09

    Very nice work

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 19/Jun/2020 09:03:48

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I have no idea about the dates for various photography/printing technologies, I'm afraid.

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    suckindeesel

    • 19/Jun/2020 21:28:10

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Damn, you made me look it up for myself. It was the first commercially exploitable method of producing a photographic print on a paper base from a negative. It used the albumen found in egg whites to bind the photographic chemicals to the paper and became the dominant form of photographic positives from 1855 to the start of the 20th century, with a peak in the 1860-90 period. Wiki You can still attend classes in this technique, Covid permitting So, an albumen print of our photo could indicate a date range

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 19/Jun/2020 22:31:24

    The Jaunty In Belleek Limerick Young Jaunty, he stands in Belleek A salmon or two there to seek, But the watery ladder Affects his weak bladder - He's excused for an imminent leak.
    Gone, but not forgotten! - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000325014