A Power(ful) group from Paris?

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The Powers make a handsome group in the Poole studio with all in their Sunday best. The props have been seen before but they never lose their charm. Since Waterford is full of Powers, the real question is – which Powers are these, and what is the Paris connection?

+++ UPDATE +++
Well, you all undertook some mighty genealogical sleuthing into this Power family group, all of it circling around and around one word in the original catalogue description – Paris. It was highly enjoyable and entertaining, but the consensus is that we can't be certain of which Powers we're talking about here, and Paris might just be a very smelly Gallic red herring.

Photographer: A. H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford

Date: between ca. 1901 and 1954

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 0645

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 9626
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland powerfamilygroup poolephotographiccollection

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  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 29/May/2020 08:57:46

    Not the same toy yacht but perhaps the same racquet Master O'Brien, Coolmore, Fermoy

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    O Mac

    • 29/May/2020 09:37:52

    Here's a Power Swedish group. catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000593643/MooviewerImg?mobile...

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    O Mac

    • 29/May/2020 09:41:17

    Poole is full of Powers. He's Powerful. 1614 photos of Powers in the Poole Collection. ... Same yacht but different Powers. .. Unhappy Powers. catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000590590/MooviewerImg?mobile...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 29/May/2020 11:22:16

    I'll guess before looking: these Powers lived in a house named Paris. People sometimes name their house for where they honeymooned.

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    John Spooner

    • 29/May/2020 15:10:49

    The Powers of Paris in the press: - Madame Power, Paris contributed £1 to the Central Committee for the Relief of Distress in Ireland (Catholic Telegraph - Saturday 24 January 1863) - Madame Power, Paris also donated £1 to the Lancashire Distress Fund (Saunders's News-Letter - Saturday 17 January 1863) Her contribution is always listed after that or Mrs Byrne, Paris. - In the summer of 1884, Miss Power, Paris, was staying at the Kilkenny Hotel, Tramore (Waterford Mirror and Tramore Visitor. - Thursday 14 August 1884).

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    suckindeesel

    • 29/May/2020 16:13:37

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Is that within the possible date range of a Poole?

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    ofarrl

    • 29/May/2020 16:47:15

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] the 1884 date might be, Poole arrived in Waterford in the early 1880's.

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    O Mac

    • 29/May/2020 16:59:26

    May or may not be...... The 1901 census shows there was a Victorine Power (48) who was born in France. Also two sons Hugh(17) and Edward(15). while no husband listed she is "married" and not widowed. www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Water...

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    an poc

    • 29/May/2020 17:54:53

    Here's the birth register entry of Hugh Augustine Power (b. 20 Aug 1883), son of Pierce Charles Power and Victorine Marie Power, née Maignan (?), Lisnageragh, Bunmahon: civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_...

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    an poc

    • 29/May/2020 18:03:23

    And here's Edward Bernard Power, b. 20 Jan 1885. And a different spelling of Victorine's maiden name - Le Maignone: civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth...

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 30/May/2020 07:10:10

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Doesn't look much like the sort of neighbourhood inhabited by the photo-commissioning classes.

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    cargeofg

    • 30/May/2020 09:04:40

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Powers Seeds Waterford. seedtech.ie/index.php/en/about_us/history. We have seen their signs at the station in Abbeyleix.

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    an poc

    • 30/May/2020 12:13:44

    One Pierse Charles Power died in 1933: www.myheritage.com/names/pierse_power

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    an poc

    • 30/May/2020 12:43:43

    A Pierce Charles Power was on the jury at the Dungarvan Quarter Sessions in 1881 (Waterford News, 8 July 1881, 4)

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    O Mac

    • 30/May/2020 12:57:19

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ I'd have to agree. twas only Power/France connection I could find. Long shot.

  • profile

    an poc

    • 30/May/2020 13:13:38

    Munster Express, 2 Feb 1884, 8: EVICTIONS ON THE COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS ESTATE. The Sheriff, his attendant bailiffs, Mr Watts, representing the College of Physicians, and several policemen, appeared at the residence of Mr Pierce Charles Power, Lisnagera, at 1 pm on Monday last to carry on an eviction. Mrs P C Power and a child were the only persons in the house at the time. An entrance was effected through a window by one of the bailiffs, and afterwards the doors were thrown open to admit a sheriff, agent, and policemen. Some inner doors were then burst open, and in one of the rooms, appearing no way discomposed when the bailiff and police entered, was Mr recte Mrs? Power with the child, both exhibiting a gentleness rarely to be seen in such a case. Mr Pierce C Power had just come in haste from Dungarvan, and became a little agitated only when he observed what he considered the spiteful act of the college agents. After an interval of about an hour the police cleared the house and premises, and possession was given to the College. The tenants of Mrs Power were then visited, and all of them gave peaceable possession, except one, a heroic old woman of 80 (Biddy Dunphy) who, when she was requested to open her door for the sheriff, said in a voice suggestive of a virago not having yet seen her thirtieth summer, "Ye woont come in antil ye brake it." An ancestor of Mr Pierce Charles Power came to live on the College estate, then the property of Sir Patrick Dunn, a humane doctor of medicine in Dublin nearly a 150 years ago, as agent. He was, like the proprietor, generous and humane, and greatly beloved by the tenants; but, alas! generosity and humanity have long since become strangers here. At that time tenants on this estate--if tradition speaks truly--knew nothing of eviction. They lived on--some happily, in all the rustic comforts of the time--a few in affluence. The Powers of more recent date were of the latter kind. They held several farms on this estate and on the adjoining one; they were what are generally called "middle men," and were, at the time I speak of, the most respected and benevolent gentry of the place. It was thought that they were even generous to excess in many instances, when dealing with the poor; and this failing (if it be such) is strongly inherited by their present descendant recte descendant?, who on yesterday was surrounded by several who showed their sympathy for him in their tears. Mr Pierce Charles Power was evicted for non-payment of one year's rent from the land which himself and his ancestors occupied for one hundred and fifty years. Cruel! Cruel! When will this cruel and heartless management cease on an estate that was once a model of prosperity and happiness in Ireland? I have seen little else than inhuman acts by the College agents in dealing with a wretched tenantry since I came here from New York three years ago. There I observed the turbulent stream of human life emptying itself into a calm and peaceful ocean of human existence. Here I observe its source.--Correspondent.

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    an poc

    • 30/May/2020 13:24:37

    For more on the Power family and their property see Des Cowman, 'The Waterford estates of the Royal College of Physicians of Ireland (1703-1906)', Decies, 71 (2015), 19-42: snap.waterfordcoco.ie/collections/ejournals/215004/215004...

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    an poc

    • 30/May/2020 15:13:24

    From the far side of the country, the Tuam Herald, 4 May 1907, 4, reported that the estate of Pierce Charles Power at Greenan, Co. Mayo, was sold to the Estates Commissioners

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    an poc

    • 30/May/2020 15:43:46

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Perhaps not, but the family's fortunes may well have declined between the time of the photo and the time of the census (unless we're sure the photo can't have been taken before 1901)

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    suckindeesel

    • 30/May/2020 17:57:38

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] The modest digs of 1901 goo.gl/maps/AWYd9AJHtJskkVKRA

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    suckindeesel

    • 31/May/2020 19:10:53

    The two boys were born in 1883 and 1885. So, how old do they look in the photo? Should be possible to guesstimate their ages and hence date range of photo. Long before 1901 anyway.. C 1890 would be my guess. I have no idea who the young man and woman were, perhaps nieces/nephews.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 01/Jun/2020 19:11:10

    I've found some more information about Pierce Charles and Victorine Power and family. I found her in the England and Wales 1911 Census - she was living in Bristol at the time, with just Edward this time: [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/49960197208] It lists her as being born in Mortain, Manche in France, rather than Paris. She also had had 7 children with 5 still living in 1911. I managed to find another 3 - Victorine Marie born June 1881, Louis William born July 1880 (though he died in December 1890) and Patrick D'Alton, born August 1882. There is also a Marguerite, who married Ferdinand Cottuli in February 1895, she's in the 1901 Census and was born in England. There's a match in the 1939 Register: [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/49960919581] and the 1911 Census (again in Bristol): [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/49960919651/] Taken together, they would indicate that she was born in Bath, Somerset in October 1870.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 01/Jun/2020 19:25:05

    The Pierce Charles and Victorine Power kids would then be: Marguerite (born1870) Louis (1880 - 1890) Victorine (1881 - 1895) Patrick D'Alton (born 1882) Hugh (born 1883) Edward (born 1885) With one still unknown (probably born between 1870 and 1880?) Victorine the younger died in September 1895, so she and Louis would be the two children no longer alive in the 1911 census. From what I can see the ages don't match with the kids in the photo, and there is at least one younger boy missing - Patrick, Hugh and Edward are within 3 years of each other.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 01/Jun/2020 20:38:31

    There may be at least another kid - as far as I can see Pierce Charles Power and Victorine Le Maignan only got married in 1877 in Winchester, so that Marguerite may be Victorine's step-daughter and she and Pierce had another 7 children. (On the other hand Victorine was claiming to be married for 40 years in 1911. So who knows.)

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 01/Jun/2020 22:39:29

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Good sleuthing, they sure led an "interesting" life. The father seems to have dropped out of sight early on and I wonder does he show up in the English census? Marguerite could be her natural daughter, being the French form of Margaret. The forty years married claim could be to legitimise her status. There is mention of only one child, Hugh?, being present in the house during the 1884 eviction, but Edward was born a year later in the same locality. Where were the other children? What happened to Mr.Power? So many questions stemming from a simple family portrait.

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 01/Jun/2020 22:50:45

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ I don't think we're looking at the same Powers.. Besides the age anomalies ...the elegant attire in the picture doesn't fit with the 1901 residence on Clashrea Place and the Edward in the 1911 census is listed as a dock labourer.

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 01/Jun/2020 23:02:32

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Yes, you could be right. After all the entire narrative hangs on a single word, "Paris", which as it turns out is not even the lady's birthplace. Where were the other children in the 1901 census? However, how many Powers of Waterford married French ladies in early 19th century Waterford?

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 02/Jun/2020 08:29:42

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Yeah, I just realised that for some reason I've been reading the eviction as being 1894 rather than 1884. There was an outside chance that the photo had been taken in the early 1890s when they were still seeming relatively prosperous. (Though Marguerite's father is still listed as a "gentleman" in 1895.) [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] There are a number of different possibilities for a Waterford Power family to be living in Paris - maybe being part of a diplomatic mission, or acting as a representative for a firm. (Assuming of course that the original word was Paris and that it isn't a misreading/typo.) I did try and have a look in Galliica, the digital portal of the Biblithèque National de France for any suitable looking Powers but gave up as there's not really enough info available to narrow it down, and I got too many Power companies instead.

  • profile

    an poc

    • 02/Jun/2020 19:14:38

    These are all very good points. I think it's possible to overstate how modest Clashrea Place was, however. Other residents in 1901 included two policemen - one a sergeant - and the Deputy Harbour Master of the city.

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    suckindeesel

    • 02/Jun/2020 20:26:25

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Re 1901 census. Yes, quite middle class. Her occupation is given as 'house keep' though. However, her two sons aged 15 & 17 are described as 'scholars' i.e.still at school, which implies being of some means in that era. Still unclear though, if we're chasing the right family. The 'Madame Power' of the donations and also possibly the photo may be somebody else entirely.

  • profile

    an poc

    • 03/Jun/2020 12:13:50

    Good point. There's very little to go on. It would be rather amusing if 'Paris' turned out to have been a mistake and it was all a wild goose chase...

  • profile

    Dr. Ilia

    • 09/Jun/2020 08:00:04

    remarkable!