THE horse with no name – and eight legs?

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Where: N Ireland, Newry Mourne and Down, UK

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1880

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
A fine street scene with a hill rising away from the photographer, filled with horse carts and ghostly men. At the top is a fine building with statues on the pediment. As ever, the Stereo Pairs Collection has an image to delight the eye, and give us some questions we would like to have answered!

+++ UPDATE +++
Ringing the Location Identified bell for this one, as all we had was “Streets, carts, M.Cutcheon McCartney, shops”. Turns out this is English Street, Downpatrick, Co. Down. Thank you all also for narrowing the date of this photograph from 1860-1883 to 1872-1883

Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton

Contributor: John Fortune Lawrence

Collection: Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection

Date: between ca. 1872-1883

NLI Ref: STP_2218

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 11106
lawrencecollection stereographicnegatives jamessimonton frederickhollandmares johnfortunelawrence williammervynlawrence nationallibraryofireland streetscene horses carts church ladders dogs locationidentified englishstreet downpatrick down ulster northernireland ireland stereopairs stereopairsphotographcollection 19thcentury

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  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 26/May/2020 08:00:34

    I see two Dogs 🐕🐕

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    Foxglove

    • 26/May/2020 08:07:14

    from my horse/donkey analysis yesterday .... it's a horse and a wannabe donkey impersonator. on my phone today ... I cannot see the dogs

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    Foxglove

    • 26/May/2020 08:08:51

    i cannot make out the names on the shops as the angle is too oblique , interesting shop sign/marker just left of centre

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    derangedlemur

    • 26/May/2020 08:14:34

    Looks like a courthouse at the top of the hill. Let's see if I can identify it before Sharon gets here...

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 26/May/2020 08:15:27

    Downpatrick?

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    derangedlemur

    • 26/May/2020 08:15:32

    Downpatrick: goo.gl/maps/PtcUfHVd9uHYoU2d7

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 26/May/2020 08:18:02

    Reverse-ish view previously on Flickr. The NLI is ALWAYS amazing! ... https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/8241200776/

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 26/May/2020 08:18:47

    Gazumped by beachcomber!

  • profile

    Foxglove

    • 26/May/2020 08:28:50

    just had a look at church avenue on Google street like above. I am taken aback by how little change there has been in almost 140 years !

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    cargeofg

    • 26/May/2020 08:47:55

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/foxglove It think https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] is having a laugh at our expense. 1 dog in stereo. Dog is on packing case bottom left of frame.

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    DannyM8

    • 26/May/2020 08:56:11

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ 😉

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    cargeofg

    • 26/May/2020 08:58:08

    Behind the camera would be The Assembly Rooms now the Down Arts Centre. Red brick with terracotta moldings. Built 1882. designed by Belfast architect William Batt.

  • profile

    Foxglove

    • 26/May/2020 09:14:59

    still can't see the wee dog, maybe I should go for one of those special Dom Cummings eye tests !

  • profile

    Foxglove

    • 26/May/2020 09:15:35

    ah ! spotted the dog 🐕

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 26/May/2020 09:33:58

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] On the other photo - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000565548 - they worked out that the 1882 Assembly Rooms had not yet been built. I am not sure if this STP is at the same time 'cos of that pile of stuff centre frame (see note), so the two/four images could be at different times. Anyone?

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 26/May/2020 09:38:46

    STP-2217 and 2220 both show the "new" RC church which was dedicated 1872. The above would have been taken same time as both of these pictures. So date 1872-1883?

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 26/May/2020 09:43:06

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Spot the Dog?

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 26/May/2020 10:11:22

    Another Lawrence surely taken at the same time (the ladder in the gutter etc) which shows much more detail, particularly shop names at left - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000338430 L_CAB_01668 [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] the Dog has moved and JOHN DENVER has appeared!!

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 26/May/2020 10:17:33

    And another much later c. 1900. The broken gaslights are still not fixed - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000040656 And in 1990/1 - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000354482

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 26/May/2020 10:34:45

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia I had it posted and went back and read through the comments on Eason plate. Saw my error, as lack of Assembly rooms was dating evidence. I am sure there is a song title in there some where. Dog on a box or Dog Gone. Any idea who would you get to sing it ??

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 26/May/2020 10:52:23

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ There is a cat there as well (I think), we don't often see cats on the stream! I don't like Cats.

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 26/May/2020 11:15:19

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Also ladder while still in same position kerb/gutter in CAB 1668 now has a second one tied on to it. Photo taken later in day. Pile of stuff collected or moved indoors.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 26/May/2020 12:08:29

    It's fascinating to compare the same day pics to see what has moved. I have a feeling that the red brick house in the middle with open windows is unoccupied and brand new (ie might provide a date). There is a face at the window here and someone on the front windowsill in the other photo. Flickr is sometimes amazing! In 2018 via some eejit - https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia/49937818126/in/dateposted/

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 26/May/2020 22:39:13

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Have a look at the motorcycle in catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000332200

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 27/May/2020 08:14:06

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I saw that photo yesterday and it most infuriating to say that the number IJ 119 is missing from Lennonwylie list. Also spent some time looking at early motorcycles last night. first make I looked at was Humber. Those are very early with pedals still fitted. Also [email protected] sign is clear with 1900s style car. Methinks visit to Coventry motor cycle museum is on the cards after this unwinds and will contact a friend of mine who does The Banbury Run. Plate number 8215 is the companion one to the one you linked. He has turned the front wheel in your and gent with beard is in shot.

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 27/May/2020 12:33:34

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] The IJ series were introduced in Dec 1903. The 1914 Lennonwylie may only list motor cars?, as per wiki: "IJ 1-100 were mixed allocations to all types of vehicles, but thereafter there was a period when motorcycles were segregated in blocks; the following were the motorcycle blocks: IJ 101-150, 201-249, 301-350, 451-500, 551-600, 651-700, 751-800, 851-950, 1001-1100, 1151-1200 and 1251 up, (no information thereafter). Other vehicles took the remaining numbers, but 1000-1050 were, in fact, duplicated."

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 27/May/2020 12:43:08

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] The IJ series were introduced in Dec 1903. The 1914 Lennonwylie may only list motor cars?, as per wiki: "IJ 1-100 were mixed allocations to all types of vehicles, but thereafter there was a period when motorcycles were segregated in blocks; the following were the motorcycle blocks: IJ 101-150, 201-249, 301-350, 451-500, 551-600, 651-700, 751-800, 851-950, 1001-1100, 1151-1200 and 1251 up, (no information thereafter). Other vehicles took the remaining numbers, but 1000-1050 were, in fact, duplicated." Although the cycle shop is displaying a Humber logo, I don't think either bikes are Humbers. Both are belt drive but I think even early Humbers were chain drive. Logo on tank looks wrong also. https://www.flickr.com/photos/internetarchivebookimages/14796683873/

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 27/May/2020 14:54:38

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Yes tank logo looks different and hopefully that will help. Some counties on the lists in Lennonwylie have the motorcycles (noted as B) mixed through with cars (noted as C) But on Co Down they are in a separate list below the cars but IJ 119 is missing. Also to note on Humbers the engine was used as a stressed member.

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 27/May/2020 17:01:52

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Does that help towards a first date, if plate 8215 is comtempory with our picture?

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 27/May/2020 19:31:59

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I should have said end date, of course. Such a low number may indicate early in the 1903-1914 range. The RIC cap might give an indication of date also, no idea when they were first worn but early uniforms were different in that respect. Strange that that number is missing, but not all of the earlier numbers are listed. Perhaps it just means that list is incomplete.

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 28/May/2020 08:55:18

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Has had a comment on to days photo as to RIC head gear and N Mc auley also noted forage cap on RIC man in companion photo of Ballinasloe https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] IJ 119 would be early on 1903/4. There were cars and bikes around unregistered prior to 1903 so depending on the county the first hundred or so would have been used up faster that later on. I would say you could narrow it down closer to 1903 end of range. 8215 and your linked plate were from same day and bearded man has come into shot and front wheel has moved so plate is not visable.