Tidal waters and tree-covered hills.
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Research Help!
Where: Ulster, Donegal, Ireland
Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.
When: 01 January 1870
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
For the past several days, you’ve all been doing sterling work and providing wonderful insights into the background of each photograph. That is much appreciated.
Today we have a slightly more difficult image – a tidal inlet with wooded hills and fern-covered foreshore. But where is it?
Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton
Contributor: John Fortune Lawrence
Collection: Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection
Date: between ca. 1860-1883
NLI Ref: STP_1742
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 11454
Today we have a slightly more difficult image – a tidal inlet with wooded hills and fern-covered foreshore. But where is it?
Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton
Contributor: John Fortune Lawrence
Collection: Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection
Date: between ca. 1860-1883
NLI Ref: STP_1742
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 11454
lawrencecollection
stereographicnegatives
jamessimonton
frederickhollandmares
johnfortunelawrence
williammervynlawrence
nationallibraryofireland
tidalinlet
rockyforeshore
treecoveredhills
ulster
rzmofre
stereopairsphotographcollection
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sharon.corbet
Dunlewy Lough, Co. Donegal.
derangedlemur
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet All it's mates are, anyway. I haven't managed to match up Streetview yet. Also, it looks tidal; might be Gweedore
sharon.corbet
Streetview from up high.
derangedlemur
Is it this view mirrored: goo.gl/maps/bVrxtqLa3csAv78L9?
sharon.corbet
I'm inclined to think that the house is Dunlewy House - as marked on the Cassini map. There's also a Lawrence photo taken from close to where my Streetview above was from. I would feel that this photo was taken from somewhere close to the shoreline, but I can't find a suitable spot.
derangedlemur
If it's the view I'm suggesting that would still be Dunlewy House. Edit: I think the map supports this, as there's an annex at the left hand end which would be at the other end viewed from the north east, though if it's viewed from due east there's another annex that would appear on the left, so it's not conclusive..
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Flickr is sometimes amazing! I think Fred Jim and John were very close to the shoreline near the church. Can't decide which photo so here are two showing that distinctive pointy rock (see note) ... https://www.flickr.com/photos/46416366@N05/25053072644/ via https://www.flickr.com/photos/46416366@N05/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/187443261@N05/49666683757/ via https://www.flickr.com/photos/187443261@N05/
derangedlemur
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia That seems fairly conclusive.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
And also - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000335289 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000324821
sharon.corbet
There are a couple of "reverse views" showing the church including this one for example, but I still can't definitely make out that spit of land.
derangedlemur
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet If you look in the aerial of your geohive, I think it's a random sandbar where the river comes into the lake. It probably changed regularly enough that it's not marked accurately on the map.
cargeofg
Map shows that there is a boathouse and landing stage which is visible and better view of house as is not obscured by trees in Plate 01730. Also I have marked as flag staff ? in the photo as I cannot see any other poles nearby. But no sign of F.S on map.
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8468254@N02 I was assuming that the Lawrence photos (at least) were taken in a similar time frame, but maybe not.
cargeofg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000324821 A little off topic but this is the C of I church and 04572 is correctly titled as Roman Catholic
Foxglove
congrats to NLI that the Becher family photo yesterday was picked up as an "Explore" item .... maybe more feedback to follow
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 I'm not sure of the date of the Cassini map (after 1902 I presume from the surface water height data mentioned in the lake) but it's probably at least 20 years after the photo was taken. The 6" map doesn't show the boathouse either, but the house is in a different place.
derangedlemur
We're really missing the 25" on this one. Cassini is from the '40s, as far as I remember.
cargeofg
Do think that the water surface as noted 1902 is an addition to an earlier map. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet
cargeofg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet In the second plate of https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia We have the side car and was the driver Jaunty not identified and dated in Donegal on another Lawrance plate.Or did Lawrance and his photographers make several trips years apart
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 The Stereo pair collection date range (1860-1883) has proved pretty reliable so far - I'm not aware of any falling outside that range. There have been previous examples where quite clearly Lawrence/French have been multiple times to the same area (based on buildings, trees etc.) but we don't have any details of how they went about their work. The Geohive site gives some info on the different maps. The 6" map dates from 1837-1842, so is significantly before this date. The 25" map has more of a range 1888-1913 depending on the sheet. (It is missing here). The Cassini map seems to be more or less a redrawing of the 25" but with updates in some places that date to the 1930s or 40s. (For example, the Marino estate at Fairview/Clontarf is shown in the Cassini, not in the 25"). Without the 25" being there, it is not really possible to say what was added to the Cassini, and what came from an earlier map. (Note that even the 25" map, if it were there could be anywhere up to 40 years after this photo, given the date ranges of both the map and the Stereo pair collection.)
cargeofg
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000324821/Holdings#tabnav just to provide some more evidence to start of date range. Two sections of gutter missing on the Church which was built 1850-1853. Consecrated in 1853. So if lower end of range is 1865 listed on this photo. This sort of damage to the gutters would not have taken place over 15years? Slates look in good order and paint on louvers is not peeling. Main house and Boat house are clear in this image and position of boathouse looks the same as Cassini map. I have noticed on the OSI 25" changes of colour of paper(older/younger sheets) for different areas of the country as you scroll over it.
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06] link to a bit of history of the church and the Dunlewey estate images.app.goo.gl/v83hbQv6ej4E68og7
cargeofg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 there is also a link on the upside down pair photo a few days ago. The text below comes from ww.ostanlochaltan.com. If I am infringing a copyright here I am sure The Marys will advise and I will remove text. Dunlewey House was built around two hundred years ago by a man called Dombrain who worked for the Coastguard and Lighthouse Services. He was attracted to the area by the beautiful scenery and the opportunities for fishing and hunting. Among the many owners of the house were, James Russell, (whose wife built the old church in his memory), Mr Ross who was a mill owner from Belfast, Mrs Crankshaw from Cork, a relation of the Glenveagh Mc Elhinneys, (who is buried in the old church and her husband is buried in the church graveyard) and Major Cooper. At present the estate is owned by the Guinness family who allow visits to the house at certain times of the year, particularly during the Dunlewey Festival each July. Newly married couples are often given permission to use the house and the estate as a backdrop for their wedding photographs.
sharon.corbet
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06] I'm a bit lost as to what you are trying to say. This photo is part of the Stereo Pairs Collection, which has as mentioned above a fairly consistent range associated with it. (1860-1883) There is one Lawrence photo that I would assume was taken at the same time (this one I linked to above. The presence of "Jaunty" was linked to photos in the late 1880s before, so may help give an indicative date for that photo. However, it doesn't say anything about this one. The presence of the boathouse would probably indicate again, that those photos were taken after this one, but no more than that. The map may be from any date up to the 1930s, so again it doesn't really help much in dating this photo. More interesting to me at least, is if it is possible to find out when Dunlewy House was apparently rebuilt closer to the shoreline, as that may give a limit on the earliest date. (See the difference in position between the 6" and the Cassini maps.)
sharon.corbet
There's a small TG4 video on Dunlewey House. Unfortunately for me, it's half in Donegal Irish, and the subtitles disappeared. However, it claims that the house was built in 1829.
suckindeesel
https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 The church only had one full time rector, he moved on in 1872, which may have resulted in some deterioration of its structure.
cargeofg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Sorry to cause you head scratching. By association with later date for Jaunty and his companion with deerstaker hat and condition of gutters. I was trying to help with date of plate showing the pair in the sidecar in front of church relevant to position of house. https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 Lack of congregation probably forced rector to seek another position in a more populated parish.
cargeofg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet On bad panda mode with TG4 link. Also not a word about it in NIAH for Donegal Field gates and their piers listed, water pumps and post boxes a plenty. But no house or either of the churches at Dunlewey/Poison Glen !!
suckindeesel
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06] An Taisce lists the gate lodge, 1810, www.antaisce.org/sites/antaisce.org/files/2013-08-25-at-g...
Dr. Ilia
Great discovery and photo