Plus fours and horse apples

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Research Help!

Where: Munster, Cork, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1915

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
This is the street shot of Mitchelstown I shied away from a couple of days back, and now I wonder why? A fine street view with the whole of the town out and about doing business, going to school, and getting on with life. No “Social Distancing” here, but nary a dog in sight!

Photographer: Unknown

Collection: Eason Photographic Collection

Date: Circa 1915?

NLI Ref: EAS_0957

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 19935
eason easonson easoncollection easonphotographiccollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland mitchelstown cocork streetscene horsesandcarts schoolboys shops awnings cork ireland munster 20thcentury

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  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 01/May/2020 07:31:31

    I see a dog beside a shop on the left.

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    Foxglove

    • 01/May/2020 07:50:08

    wide, generous pavement with pavers, sets and stone herbs. I think I can see the dog, is it curled/ sitting by the shop door ( I am using a small screen today). Children are shod

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    Foxglove

    • 01/May/2020 07:58:51

    shop, "best prices for hides and skins" ,another trade that disappeared off the high street?

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    suckindeesel

    • 01/May/2020 08:06:37

    Can anyone identify which street?

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 01/May/2020 08:16:01

    See previous dating comments etc on this rectangular image of the square - https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/26143527179/ The hideous telegraph/telephone poles in all these Eason street and crossroad photos keep catching my attention. Was he on a commission to record them c. 1915 ?

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 01/May/2020 08:21:18

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04] Lower Cork St. ? Streetview - goo.gl/maps/hU7u5Gk3EHfvrejr9

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    O Mac

    • 01/May/2020 08:25:31

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/32162360@N00/] Eason being slightly later that French I think we're seeing electricity poles for first time. On the right in this instance.. telephone/telegraph on left. streetview. maps.app.goo.gl/A8R6KFmGpKCSA6XPA

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 01/May/2020 08:39:56

    I think this is the correct House and Building report from the 1911 Census showing Morrisseys Shop at building no 44, the interesting thing is that of the 17 buildings listed 8 are Public Houses! That's my type of town.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 01/May/2020 08:56:16

    I think we are before the 1910 bank on the corner with church hill on the left.

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    cargeofg

    • 01/May/2020 09:27:15

    Shadows cast from carts of coal leaving O Brien's are longish and to our left. So we are looking -----.Edit South east. Off on their morning delivery round. Smart dressed lad with cap has a pile of schoolbooks under his arm. On his way to school.

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    cargeofg

    • 01/May/2020 09:39:12

    No cars to be seen or motor bicycles and no signs for Motor Spirit. Pre 1903. Edit Wheel of car in companion photo. See highlight https://www.flickr.com/photos/79549245@N06 and https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia comment below.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 01/May/2020 09:48:24

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/79549245@N06 My bad, there is a dog but he's chilling out there!

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    DannyM8

    • 01/May/2020 09:50:00

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/47290943@N03/ there is at least one other, spot the Dog 🐕

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    cargeofg

    • 01/May/2020 09:58:32

    Fred Dean Snr Older people here in Wales where I live tell me you could get direct from the colliery in South Wales as mined coal. So you got all sizes. Came up on the train to Tregaron Station and as youngsters their job was to break up the big stuff with an sledge hammer.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 01/May/2020 10:18:07

    Here is the Coal Agent, John O'Brien in the 1901 Census lots of mention of Coal and Coal carriers O'Brien Coal Agent 1901 Census Whereas, in the 1911 Census O'Brien is a Merchant and not a mention of Coal in the whole form, O'Brien, Merchant 1901 Census Does this help us with dating the photo?

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 01/May/2020 10:23:51

    The 1832 Court House (see note) has the same old gent(s) sitting on the step, and a ripped poster on the left, as this other photo - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000556781 - where [https://www.flickr.com/photos/79549245@N06] found the 1915 Army recruitment poster, as detailed previouslly in the (rectangular) square photo linked above. btw - What has happened to [https://www.flickr.com/photos/20727502@N00/] ? Have not seen his comments for a long while. Hope he is ok.

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    cargeofg

    • 01/May/2020 10:27:58

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Old moulded on signage is still there in 2019 streetview. Stylelounge at 49 and Wollen and Fancy Warehouse is now a pizza house.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 01/May/2020 10:28:38

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 I think we are looking south-east, not north. Afternoon. And there is a car in the square photo at extreme right.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 01/May/2020 10:35:45

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Firstly I am surprised https://www.flickr.com/photos/79549245@N06 found anything other than a Dog. Secondly I talked with https://www.flickr.com/photos/20727502@N00/ a few Months ago, he was in good form and working hard on some important projects, I am sure we will see him back soon. We do miss his insights, particularly on Cork related matters.

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    cargeofg

    • 01/May/2020 10:41:48

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Just visible but there. All helps with dates if photographer had moved a little to his left we would never had seen it.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 01/May/2020 12:50:13

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/32162360@N00/ good eyes! 1915+ it is. My bank is listed as c1910, but I don't see a firm date. evidently later.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 01/May/2020 13:26:40

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Yes, [https://www.flickr.com/photos/20727502@N00/] had trouble with the actual date of the bank on the square photo. It could be as late as 1920 (therefore also latest date for these photos?) I had doubts about the date of the recruitment poster on the Court House; but no - definitely 1915 via the Imperial War Museum - www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30422 "Parliamentary Recruiting Committee Poster No.60 W. 12400 PST 21343 is the master copy of a version produced for Ireland" Ed. The NLI is always amazing! - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000250591

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    suckindeesel

    • 01/May/2020 13:32:15

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/91549360@N03 Maybe a little further up street. So many of the buildings have changed, but the 2 on the right are still there, inscriptions 'Woolen and fancy goods warehouse' and 'Padraig Catair' in the old script are still there. The ugly green pizza joint.

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    O Mac

    • 01/May/2020 13:49:23

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 See note. Pádraigh O Cátháin, draper.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 01/May/2020 14:42:26

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/91549360@N03 https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 The date range on the photo referenced above by him down under reads: "Date: Catalogue range c.1900-1939. Certainly >1906. Perhaps <1920. And probably c.1915 (give or take a few years)" Are we happy to go with a straight Circa 1915 based on the dating of the poster by https://www.flickr.com/photos/79549245@N06 previously and https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia today?

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    O Mac

    • 01/May/2020 14:56:16

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland 1915ish seems about right me.

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    cargeofg

    • 01/May/2020 16:16:45

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland One can only speculate as to the car in the photo of the square is it the same one as the Abbyleix plates of a few days ago. Did the the Photographer have a car and driver to bring him around and maybe a touch of the O'Dea here as well getting it into shot. It would be interesting to see if a Model T and driver are in any other Eason plates.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 01/May/2020 18:25:18

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 An interesting idea about the motor car, when I get a chance I will have a look. Mary

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 01/May/2020 21:15:27

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Oddly enough, I thought that too. Mr O'Dea's inspiration! There is a Model T (?? see distinctive mudguard and horizontally split windscreen) lurking furtively in the 'signs' photo of Abbeyleix - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000047926

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 01/May/2020 21:31:51

    Pssst!! See comments (from some eejit) about possibly being the photographers car ...[https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/37409856520/] And catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000556776

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/May/2020 06:29:28

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] Very interesting. We need to get to the bottom of this. We do have the Irish Motor Directory for 1915/16 in Library Towers which I bet includes details about IK 1718, when we ([https://www.flickr.com/photos/47297387@N03] ) get back to the books we will have a look. IK-1513 is the last "IK" in the 1914/15 Directory See - Lennon and Wylie www.lennonwylie.co.uk/IrishMotorDirectory1914.htm

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    cargeofg

    • 02/May/2020 10:01:56

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Too quick for me this morning I was on a trawl of Eason photos and came up with the same two as you beachcomber. On the above car IK1718 you can see on the drivers side an under hanging cable also visible on linked photo (EAS0951) Also two spare tyres or maybe Stephney rims in both photos Storage cabinet fitted on car in EAS0951 which would also explain dark profile area above wheel in EAS0954. Great if you can find IK 1718 in a later directory.

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    suckindeesel

    • 02/May/2020 16:09:07

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Looks like a 'Tommy' in another photo EAS_0955 of square. So, WW1 period?

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    cargeofg

    • 02/May/2020 17:35:27

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] www.flickr.com/photos/dmentd1/23834427799/in/photolist-Cj...Under hanging cable is for a speedometer driven from a gear fixed on to inner side of wooden spokes. Plenty of room behind cab to fit a cabinet for equipment instead of opening up the dicky seat

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    Bernard Healy

    • 02/May/2020 20:03:56

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/91549360@N03 Re: Pádraig Ó Catháin, if you compare the 1901 & the 1911 censuses, you'll see that in 1901 the draper's shop was run by a Thomas Roche, and Patrick Keane was one of his draper's assistants. In 1911, Patrick Keane has the shop himself and he uses the Irish version of his name Pádraig Ó Catháin. He's in his early 30s at that stage. I know this doesn't help much with dating as we seem fairly confident about a circa 1915 date, but it's extra evidence in favour of a later date AND the use of the Irish language in the census and the shop front tells a little bit of a story.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/May/2020 22:05:27

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 I will put you down for a little overtime now that ye are working on a Saturday! Thanks, Mary

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 02/May/2020 22:11:54

    Next problem/task - who was the photographer who owned or hired a Model T Ford in 1915 to buzz around Co. Cork and elsewhere taking photos of poles in streets? Blacked-out signature at bottom right of many photos ... "... These negatives were generated by several different photographers and sometimes by clients. Some negatives are inscribed with 'Poulton,' negatives of Poulton & Son, London. These were Irish views acquired by Eason. Other Eason negatives are initialised 'W.R.& S.' these relate to the Edinburgh firm of William Ritchie & Sons, while others are called D'Arcy. ..." From - catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000033799#

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    O Mac

    • 02/May/2020 22:13:17

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/47290943@N03/ Don't forget to turn out the lights on your way out.

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    O Mac

    • 02/May/2020 22:23:12

    Bernard Healy I agree it's a interesting bit to the story... I notice too, as head of the household in 1911, Ó Catháin also filled out the occupants names in Irish. A nationalist who proudly displayed his name in Irish with the permanence of plaster stucco on his shop front...in a garrison town...

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    cargeofg

    • 03/May/2020 09:12:02

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 Three more in EAS0958 If the plate numbers run in sequence looks like he turned the camera 180deg Carts with milk churns going to creamery in Clonmel St. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland British soilders out and about just walking down the street not on patrol Pre 1916.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 03/May/2020 09:12:46

    [Aside red herring] Via Trove, this 1915 story about a German Governess and a British Army Officer who met in Mitchelstown. Would make a good movie - trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/90775245

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    cargeofg

    • 03/May/2020 10:13:28

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia. That would make a good film If we could get a studio to take it. Would they do one also on the subject of Princess Elizabeth and Margaret moved to Co Wicklow during early WW2 . I did notice all the erased/scratched out names on the Eason plates. Copyright avoidance?

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    cargeofg

    • 03/May/2020 11:15:24

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04 https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Just alternating between this photo and Abbeyleix comments of 3days ago. On the subject of recruitment posters there is one in ES0956 top RH corner with lots of other posters. I am sure I have seen that poster dated and researched here via Imperial war Museum. Just more evidence to narrow date range along with we now know that we had imported Model Ts

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    suckindeesel

    • 03/May/2020 11:20:43

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 The presence of the Tommy casually strolling across the square would indeed indicate a pre 1916 date, so probably 1915? We visited this town recently via the Lawrence 'eviction' series'. One of the Eason's shots looking up the street from the square is very similar to one of Lawrence's.

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    cargeofg

    • 03/May/2020 13:41:26

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/184711311@N04] Here we are poster is in NLI Comments with links back to ES0956 www.flickr.com/photos/yournlireland/9030025023/in/photoli...

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    suckindeesel

    • 03/May/2020 14:03:57

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 Very catchy, almost makes me want to join up today. Do you have to provide your own sprig of shamrock?

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    suckindeesel

    • 03/May/2020 19:30:11

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Sundays too, in my day

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    suckindeesel

    • 04/May/2020 05:13:30

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/187095410@N06 The Model T looks tall enough for a lady to be still able to wear her hat

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    salah_souissi

    • 04/May/2020 16:19:30

    magnifique !

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    Dr. Ilia

    • 08/May/2020 08:00:10

    wonderful