Boots and bare feet on the ground...

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Research Help!

Where: Leinster, Leix, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1910

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
After the past few days’ researching and information gathering, we decided to move a little further South, to Abbeyleix and the Eason Collection. It looks like it was taken either early in the morning, or around noon, when the ladies were not up and about yet?

+++ UPDATE +++
Argument still rages as to the date for this one, so we’ll maintain a watching brief...

Photographer: Unknown

Collection: Eason Photographic Collection

Date: between 1900-1939

NLI Ref: Eas 2657

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 14226
eason easonson easoncollection easonphotographiccollection glassnegative abbeyleix colaois mainstreet town monument laois leinster ireland nationallibraryofireland devesci 20thcentury

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  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 28/Apr/2020 07:58:32

    Taken from about here: goo.gl/maps/BK7Wy5SwoS8xJW819 It never looks as picturesque in streetview, does it?

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    Dr. Ilia

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:00:06

    Nice shot

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    nl042

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:06:33

    Judging by the hat and the shape of her coat, I wonder if that's a woman driving down the middle of the road, but all the pedestrians do seem to be male.

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    Foxglove

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:09:36

    in many photos the "bare foot child" is often dressed in tatters; here the kids appear to be well kitted out. Boots and shoes for Sunday's and winter.

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    Foxglove

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:10:52

    I can't fully is the building, something ... O'Neill

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    cargeofg

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:16:25

    Late spring time trees in distance in leaf but tree in middle distance just coming to leaf (oak?) No ladies? Is that not one cantre of shot with wide brim hat and flowing cape/coat on donkey cart.https://www.abbeyleix.ie/history/ Another planned new town by the De Vescis Monument erected 1855

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    sharon.corbet

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:19:10

    I assume by "when the ladies were not up and about yet" you mean that the women were all at home cooking the breakfast or dinner and not trying to imply that they were lazying at home?

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:20:45

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] That's no lady, that's my wife;-)

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:22:20

    The ex Market Hall on the left was refurbished in 1906. Possibly after that ... "... the Market House was built in the Mid 1800′s as part of the Market Town of Abbeyleix. Business relating to the markets in the town would have been conducted here. In 1906 the 5th Viscount de Vesci refurbished the market house and within living memery was used as a community building where plays and concerts took place. In more recent times the abbeyleix Fire service occupied the ground floor and the library service was housed on the upper floor. In 2008 the building was refurbished and reopened as our magnificent new library ... " From - .https://www.abbeyleix.ie/places-interest/ Better seen here - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000047923 Mr Eason went mad in Abbeyleix; and Mr French didn't !

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:27:31

    There is a sequence of Eason Abbeyleix shots, and EAS 2649 includes the 1909 Hibernian bank (see Archiseek), now a BOI branch.

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    O Mac

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:39:18

    Brothers William and Edward O Neill licensed grocers are in Market Square in 1911 but not in 1901 www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchM...

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    cargeofg

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:43:25

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia In that plate ES2648 motor car behind the monument with driver in his long driving coat. Looks like a Model T. number plate not clear but seems to have at least 3 or 4 digits after letters.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:53:41

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I did not see that - well spotted. Mr Eason was very low - knee height. Was he being artistic?

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 28/Apr/2020 08:55:42

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] O'Neill shop front After a bit of squinting and using Extra Mega Zoom ( magnifying glass) is that another shop front in the same building called Kennedy. https://www.flickr.com/photos/foxglove

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    cargeofg

    • 28/Apr/2020 09:05:58

    This plate is low level. As you say artistic. Widest part of street making it appear wider and a subject (lady on cart) by accident or design (not blurred) in middle distance to lead your eye in. https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia

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    O Mac

    • 28/Apr/2020 10:23:02

    Wilkinson's in both 1901 and 1911 censusessss. Shop keeper www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Queen_s_Co_/Abb...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Apr/2020 11:56:03

    The poster under the canopy in the railway station shot could be this one for Parknasilla Hotel? The reference suggests the poster is from 1904? www.pinterest.ie/pin/533184043383295404/

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Apr/2020 12:18:14

    That station image is given as 1909 at the wiki page on the loco class Never mind, they got it here, and don't have any extra dating info.

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    suckindeesel

    • 28/Apr/2020 13:06:44

    The loco no. 60 dates from 1885, so that doesn't help

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Apr/2020 13:08:37

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley “I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.” ― Jimi Hendrix

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    suckindeesel

    • 28/Apr/2020 13:40:56

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Looks like a tin lizzy alright, American production from 1908, Irish production from 1921. Hardly an import? The lengthy number plate wouldn't tie in with an early Irish reg.

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 28/Apr/2020 14:08:05

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Could be a visitor in an English car. But more probable to be an Irish reg as by 1921 you would be well up into the late hundreds. Off on a tangent Co Longford was the slowest usage IX ran from 1903 to 1970.

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    cargeofg

    • 28/Apr/2020 14:12:46

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland You also have in Holdings EAS 2647 Reverse view Piller box clearly visible as is pile of soil/sand and 2 DOGS

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    DannyM8

    • 28/Apr/2020 15:13:31

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Did someone mention a Dog?

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 28/Apr/2020 15:51:59

    Eas 2648 (with car) was taken the same day as the above. I see a few loose stones on the road in same place in both photos. The car has a number plate so puts picture 1903 at earliest.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Apr/2020 15:53:14

    Detached former Methodist church, built c.1826, with four-bay side elevation. Extended, c.1915, comprising gable-fronted range with projecting porch added. Now in use as hall. Double-pitched roof with replacement fibre-cement slate and sprocketed eaves. Double-pitched slate roof to extension. Coursed rubble limestone walls with rendered quoins. Nap rendered walls to extensions with rendered quoins. Lancet-arch window openings with limestone sills, red brick dressings, rendered surrounds, c.1990 and fixed-pane leaded stained glass windows, c.1915. Square-headed door openings with replacement timber panelled doors, c.1990, one with overlight. Interior not inspected. Set back from street in own grounds; landscaped grounds to site; section of cast-iron railings to front Above from Buildings of Ireland Cat reference Eas 2651 if the sequence is from the same time as above we are after circa 1915 [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia]

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    suckindeesel

    • 28/Apr/2020 16:12:44

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Laois reg plates were CI 1 to CI 9999 (Dec 1903 – Jul 1960), quite a long run so would take some time to reach 3 digits. Anyway, identified as a Model T, so must be post 1908 at the very earliest, and post 1921 if assembled in Cork. Compare with this one. www.southernstar.ie/news/henry-ford-farm-to-host-festival...

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    cargeofg

    • 28/Apr/2020 16:52:57

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] www.flickr.com/photos/janner2011/14673237671/in/photolist... Plate EAS 2651 also also appears to be taken in the spring time trees are just coming into leaf and weeds are growing by the inner edge of pavement. No dead leaves to be seen. Nice base date from ext and porch added to Church. On Model T photo you can see starting handle partially obscures first two letters of number plate. Handle often held to one side by leather belt with brass buckle

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Apr/2020 18:13:29

    CI 211 was the last entry for Queens County in the LENNON WYLIE Irish Motor Directory 1914 - 1915 [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]]

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Apr/2020 18:20:30

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] There are great adverts in Eas 2650 Have a look for - BSA, Stepney Tyres, Mobil Oil and on the far right there is what looks like an "His masters voice trumpet" (very technical am I!) Surely this will help with dating?

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 28/Apr/2020 20:52:57

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Well, taking them in order: BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) recommenced making bikes, following a busy period of arms manufacture, in 1908 A 'Stepney' was an early type of spare wheel, at a time when cars didn't always have one. Invented by the Welsh company Stepney Iron Mongers in 1904. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spare_tire Mobil Oil trademark was registered in 1920. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobil Where's 'Nipper'? (HMV) I also see a British Army recruitment poster on left, that should provide an end date. Also included is a motor garage and a car hire, so not 'early days' of motoring. Include the 'tin lizzy', assembled from 1921 in Cork and I would say c. 1921-22.

  • profile

    suckindeesel

    • 28/Apr/2020 20:59:31

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland No GDPR in them days, it seems, but a useful resource. I see several 'Odlums' mentioned in the Maryborough area, No shortage of flour then.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Apr/2020 21:14:38

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks, Mary Free a Nipper, was that Maxol?

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    silverio10

    • 28/Apr/2020 22:21:14

    Buenas fotos antiguas .

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    suckindeesel

    • 29/Apr/2020 07:19:00

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] No, Nipper was the name of the dog sitting in front of the gramophone horn, used as a trademark by the Victor Talking Machine Co, later RCA Victor, and HMV (His Masters Voice) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_Master%27s_Voice

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    Carol Maddock

    • 29/Apr/2020 08:34:05

    Once more for the cheap seats at the back! What is the consensus on the date? Or is there consensus? (I want to change the Library Towers catalogue record to reflect your investigations) https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia

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    suckindeesel

    • 29/Apr/2020 08:56:50

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Dating seems possible for 2650, the Mobiloil logo of 1920, the BA recruiting poster wouldn't have been around for much longer given the events to follow?

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    cargeofg

    • 29/Apr/2020 09:19:37

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Send you a mail with links to npaoffice email address a few mins ago. My vote is springtime 1921 or 1922 latest.

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    Carol Maddock

    • 29/Apr/2020 09:35:38

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks George, but I don’t have access to that email. Barbara, who does, will pass it on to me...

  • profile

    cargeofg

    • 29/Apr/2020 10:01:08

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Ok Thanh you. Most of what I said is covered by Suck Diesel. Mine is just more longhand.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 29/Apr/2020 11:05:31

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I think it is earlier; about 1914, like many of the Eason street photos. Hmm ...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 29/Apr/2020 11:11:01

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I gave up very late last night - my best GUESS is after 1915 and before 1922

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    suckindeesel

    • 29/Apr/2020 11:51:20

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia What about the Model T?

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 29/Apr/2020 12:16:52

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Not sure it is a Ford Model T. The radiator is too big, and the mudguards too forward. And would a Model T have a chauffeur?https://www.flickr.com/photos/photiste/36748310864/

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    suckindeesel

    • 29/Apr/2020 20:28:00

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia That would give more flexibility to the start date range

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 29/Apr/2020 21:21:55

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] We had some info on Ford Model T's in Ireland previously, including - "... The first Irish Ford agent who started with a six car contract and the arrival of the new Model T in 1909 was an immediate success with sales doubling year on year until 1913 when they reached a level of 600 Fords sold in Ireland. ..." From - irishmodeltclub.ie/2013/01/07/ford-the-cork-connection/ [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/10833970264/]

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    suckindeesel

    • 29/Apr/2020 22:29:07

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia OK, so the Model 'Twas available in Ireland earlier than I imagined. May not be a chauffeur as they all wore that type of dust coat due to the unpaved roads and open cars. The Mobiloil add would suggest 1920 onwards, if Wiki is correct re date of trademark. The recruiting poster suggests an end date. That gives quite a tight date range

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Apr/2020 05:18:36

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Have a look at the photo here www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im081230-VacuumOil.jpg I see that "Gargoyle" is the Trade Mark not Mobiloil so it may be before the Mobil Oil Pegasus Logo was registered in 1920 for instanec see the words Mobilois and the trademark Gargoyle used on this advertisment for a Motor show in 1907 here www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im19070406MCJ-Vacuum.jpg

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    sharon.corbet

    • 30/Apr/2020 07:52:54

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] According to Exxon Mobil, they were using the "Gargoyle" as early as 1869, whereas the Pegasus was used as early as 1911 in South Africa. However the Gargoyle was still being used as late as 1926. In addition to that, the trademark "Mobiloil" was being used by Vacuum Oil in the UK from 1899.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Apr/2020 08:09:37

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Thanks Sharon

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    suckindeesel

    • 30/Apr/2020 08:52:40

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland I don't see a year on that motor show poster. Graces Guide also repeats that 1920 trademark date for the name 'Mobiloil', nothing to do with the Pegasus logo which dates from 1911.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 30/Apr/2020 08:58:39

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I tend to believe the company when they state "the trademark Mobiloil was used by Vacuum Oil in Britain as early as 1899." (my last link). Ireland was still part of the UK at the time.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Apr/2020 08:59:14

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im070310MCJ-Cording2.jpg

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    sharon.corbet

    • 30/Apr/2020 09:10:52

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Please also note the various signs and ads on the right-hand side for the Graces Guide for Vacuum Oils, which was the company selling Mobiloil in the UK. Trademarks are registered on a country specific basis. So it's not improbable that there was a UK trademark earlier, and the US one in 1920.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 30/Apr/2020 10:04:31

    Okay, so I went looking in the Trademark Index, and I was wrong above and the registration of "Mobiloil" as a trademark in the UK only happened in 1924. (The US was filed in 1918 incidentally.) The Gargoyle symbol was registered in 1906. However, the registration of a trademark doesn't automatically have anything to do with when a trademark originally started to be used. It's not unusual for a trademark to be used, even with a ™ after it, but not be registered until later (if at all in that country). ™ indicates only that something is used as a trademark, it may not have been registered. An ® symbol indicates that it is a registered trademark. I also note that they seem to be switching between Mobiloil and Mobiloils in their advertisements, whereas typically a trademark should be used consistently. As far as I can see then, they were using Mobiloil more as a brandname, with the Gargoyle symbol used as their actual trademark to differentiate themselves from others.

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    suckindeesel

    • 30/Apr/2020 10:25:02

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland OK, you've convinced me. It does point to an earlier possible date for photo, also that recruitment poster implies WW1 and the fact that the tin lizzy was available as an import from 1909. One story I heard was that the wooden packing used to ship parts to Cork was reused for the floor of the Model T. Very economical, our Henry.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Apr/2020 10:46:39

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Right, what date or date range?

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    suckindeesel

    • 30/Apr/2020 10:54:13

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland My best guess, WW1, purely based on the recruitment poster.

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    cargeofg

    • 03/May/2020 16:10:33

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Based now on the info of the recruitment poster and now knowing that Model T were imported. Circa 1915 I would expect these posters if up post 1916 would be torn down/defaced in some areas. On lennonwylie The directory lists for 1914/15 in Abbeyleix Alf Bandon as garage with petrol and agent for Dunlop Tyres.