Boys in uniform
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Where: Dublin, Ireland
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When: Unknown
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
"Group of boys and young men in uniform commissioned by Mr. R. Grubb" is the title of this shot, and we have nine boys with uniform accouterments in shot. it reminds me of a ditty my mother would trot out sometimes along the lines:
"We are the Boys Brigade,
Dressed up in marmalade,
threehapenny tuppeny pill box
and a couple of yards of braid!"
Is this a Boys Brigade group?
Based on the typically insightful inputs on this image, it is confirmed that this is a group from the Church Lad's Brigade, an Anglican youth organisation. In this case almost certainly the Christ Church 'company' in Dublin, pictured outside the namesake cathedral....
Photographer: A. H. Poole
Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford
Date: Catalogue range c.1901-1954. Almost certainly c.1901-1920ish
NLI Ref: POOLEWP 3538
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 25923
"We are the Boys Brigade,
Dressed up in marmalade,
threehapenny tuppeny pill box
and a couple of yards of braid!"
Is this a Boys Brigade group?
Based on the typically insightful inputs on this image, it is confirmed that this is a group from the Church Lad's Brigade, an Anglican youth organisation. In this case almost certainly the Christ Church 'company' in Dublin, pictured outside the namesake cathedral....
Photographer: A. H. Poole
Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford
Date: Catalogue range c.1901-1954. Almost certainly c.1901-1920ish
NLI Ref: POOLEWP 3538
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 25923
ahpoole
arthurhenripoole
glassnegative
nationallibraryofireland
boys
uniform
pillboxhats
posed
fightthegoodfight
churchladsbrigade
churchladsandchurchgirlsbrigade
christchurchcathedral
dublin
christchurch
medals
belts
buckles
anglican
poolephotographiccollection
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sharon.corbet
I can read one of the badges - "The Church Lads Brigade".
domenico milella
Congratulation for your beautiful Album.
sharon.corbet
There's some info on the various badges here which may help with dating.
Niall McAuley
Not an exact match, but from this wikipedia page on the Brigade (which still exists): Sergeant (three chevrons and a green sash with a button emblazoned with the C.L.B. crest) could be the left middle back row, and: Warrant officer, first class (two crowns, one on each arm, and a drill cane) right middle back row (although here he is wearing two pips on his cap).
Niall McAuley
As the name suggests the Church lad's Brigade (and the Church Girl's Brigade) are associated with the Church of England (and presumably Ireland). So this is probably a CoI church or hall behind, in Waterford.
abandoned railways
'Fight the good fight' is written around the cap badges.
derangedlemur
It doesn't look like Waterford city. Tramore or Dunmore east would be the two off the top of my head that might match. Or St Patrick's Cathedral.
abandoned railways
commissioned by Mr. R. Grubb, Stephens Green Club, Dublin, but that could have just been his address and not the location. The club is a private members club for 'Gentlemen'.
Bernard Healy
Not many R Grubbs in Ireland per the 1911 Census www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_... Note that the Dublin Grubbs tend to be CoI, whilst the Waterford Grubbs tend to be Quakers (Society of Friends.) I don't think the Quakers approved of the quasi-military nature of the Boys' Brigade, so I'd imagine a Dublin Grubb connection is more likely.
derangedlemur
I reckon it's Christ Church. That's the best match I've found with the base of the wall and the buttress. www.google.ie/maps/@53.3431941,-6.2712653,2a,22.8y,294.16...
derangedlemur
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy The Church Lads was a fair bit more militaristic than BB. The quakers would have had nothing to do with them.
Bernard Healy
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/8468254@N02] I hadn't realised the distinction between the Church Lads & the Boys' Brigade. This is an interesting history: connor.anglican.org/2018/09/07/church-lads-and-church-gir... Of note - "In 1893, two companies were established in Dublin, at Christ Church, Leeson Park, and St Peter’s. Another two, at St Mary’s, Donnybrook and St Stephen’s, were added in 1894." "The Great War had dreadful consequences for the Brigade. Companies were closed as they lost their officers and members to the war effort. When the war ended, other than St Mary’s, Limerick Cathedral Company, and St Nicholas’, Cork, CLB and CGB, the main strength of the Brigade was to be found in the north, in the 1st Down, Connor and Dromore Battalion." One could infer from the article that the most likely date for this pic is in the first two decades of the 20th century.
Niall McAuley
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8468254@N02 That stonework looks like a match to me: Christ Church it is!
Niall McAuley
For R Grubbs in Dublin, there is the tame Richard or the more exciting Romney Robinson, an Astronomical Instrument Maker like his father.
sharon.corbet
I was having a look at some newspaper articles, and there was a Lt. Grubb, later Captain associated with Christ Church, Leeson Park and later the Cathedrals in the period around 1898-1902. However, he seemed to be either T. or F. Grubb, not R. Whereas the only T.(homas) in Dublin in 1901 doesn't have an R. associated with him.
Bernard Healy
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Him being a Roman Catholic labourer rules him out.
Rory_Sherlock
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/8468254@N02] Yes - I agree with Christ Church - they were standing where the bench is today - the plinth step (higher on the left of the buttress, lower on the right) is a match and some of the stones in the wall to the right of group match perfectly with the stones to the right of the shadow-line in this image: www.google.ie/maps/@53.343286,-6.2715082,2a,75y,265.22h,8...
sharon.corbet
Turns out there was another T. or F. Grubb in Dublin in 1901. Namely the brother of [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley]'s "tame" Richard. (Though he seems to be Frederick E., and at least one Irish Times article refers to an F. C. Grubb as captain of the Cathedrals Company of the CLB.)
Niall McAuley
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy Another thing making me think this is early in the date range is that the boy at our right back is wearing a VR lapel badge. Some Victorian stuff survives (like the Victoria Cross), but my googling does not turn up any specifically CLB use of such a badge.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Thanks https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet, https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley and https://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardhealy for the info on the "Church Lad's Brigade". And to https://www.flickr.com/photos/8468254@N02 (with corroberation from https://www.flickr.com/photos/139877639@N08 and others) for the confirmation of location. I've added a brief summary to the updated description/etc. Keep fighting the good fight :)
guliolopez
Interesting, at least from my POV, "Fight the Good Fight" is also commonly the motto of Christian Brother's schools. Although they use the Latin equivalent. Certa Bonum Certamen. Perhaps to distance themselves from these 'lads' :D
RETRO STU
I recognise the badges as Church Lads Brigade.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Flickr is sometimes amazing ... https://www.flickr.com/photos/lawrence_chard/15519212156/in/photostream/
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Thanks https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia. Amazing indeed. And interesting. Not least as the CLB does seem to have held on to its military nomenclature and symbolism (like the badge). In a way that other/similar youth organisations have largely since left behind....
conijoni
I can confirm that this is a picture of Church Lads' Brigade members attached to Christ Church, Leeson Park, Dublin. This Company, Number 121, was the Pioneer Company in Ireland, formed in February 1893. Another Company was formed in St Peter's later that same year. In all, there were 13 CLB companies formed in the Dublin Diocese...St Stephen's, Donnybrook, Grangegorman, Santry and Glasnevin, others. They had all closed by the summer of 1909...I believe the last to close was St Mary's, Donnybrook.
conijoni
If I knew how to add pictures I would add an image of the CLB badge shown on the caps and also an earlier image of the Christ Church signalling squad showing the same Officer with one rank star on his cap. I would date this picture to the late 1890s. With this Company opening in Ireland in 1893, the Brigade, which is still going in Northern Ireland and in Drogheda, celebrated its 125th Anniversary in 2018 with an Anniversary Service in St Patrick's Cathedral, Armagh.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/137916911@N03/32186691788 Is it this one https://www.flickr.com/photos/137916911@N03 ?
conijoni
It is indeed.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/137916911@N03] Excellent. Allowed HTML - Flickr this link will help you with commenting and posting.