Dead Slow or I Fire!!
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Where: Cork, Ireland
Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.
When: Unknown
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Here we are back in Cork again, on "the Banks", looking at the Lower Glanmire Road from the Marina. I think it will be a challenge to get a good date, though perhaps the buildings on the North side will help? I also look forward to hearing all the details of the uniform worn by the would be artillery man....
Based on inputs in particular from guliolopez, ofarrl and Niall McAuley we learned quite a lot about the subjects here. While we initially thought that the cannon pictured was the "time gun" (used by Cork's port authorities to signal 10am daily), this was actually slightly further upstream. What we have here therefore is a non-firing trophy gun. This one was captured during the 1855 Siege of Sevastapol. It seems (conincidentally, or just for the fun of the photo) to have a member of a Royal artillery unit standing alongside it. As with much of the other (non human) subjects in this image, the cannon remains in place. As do most of the buildings and structures beyond - though the Marine Radio School at Carrig House is apparently significantly worse for wear....
Photographer: Fergus O’Connor
Collection: Fergus O’Connor Collection
Date: Collection range c.1900-1920. Perhaps early in that range
NLI Ref: OCO 282
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 20388
Based on inputs in particular from guliolopez, ofarrl and Niall McAuley we learned quite a lot about the subjects here. While we initially thought that the cannon pictured was the "time gun" (used by Cork's port authorities to signal 10am daily), this was actually slightly further upstream. What we have here therefore is a non-firing trophy gun. This one was captured during the 1855 Siege of Sevastapol. It seems (conincidentally, or just for the fun of the photo) to have a member of a Royal artillery unit standing alongside it. As with much of the other (non human) subjects in this image, the cannon remains in place. As do most of the buildings and structures beyond - though the Marine Radio School at Carrig House is apparently significantly worse for wear....
Photographer: Fergus O’Connor
Collection: Fergus O’Connor Collection
Date: Collection range c.1900-1920. Perhaps early in that range
NLI Ref: OCO 282
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 20388
ferguso’connor
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glassnegative
nationallibraryofireland
cork
munster
lowerglanmireroad
themarina
cannon
officer
riverlee
thebanks
deadslow
countycork
carrighouse
portofcork
corkharbourcommissioners
timegun
marineradioschool
tivoli
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guliolopez
Marina. Greenwich gun. Radio school. Too. Much. Cork. Don't. Know. Where. To. Start :)
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Good Morning...
guliolopez
Thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland]. Mary had told me to set my alarm. And hasn't disappointed :) To the extent that I barely know where to start. Other than to say that, had I slept in til 10 o'clock, I'd have gotten a rude awakening for this one! In terms of location, it's unequivocal. This is "the Marina". Close to the club house of Shandon Boat Club. On the south side of the Lee. Looking north. Just about here on the OSI map. The StreetView driver wasn't brave enough to follow suit. He/she missed out :) In terms of subjects, the most striking must be the "Greenwich gun" or "10 o'clock gun". To my understanding, the firing of this gun was the responsibility of the port authorities. The Cork Harbour Commissioners. Rather than the military. Not directly anyway. However, thinking about it logically, presumably the Harbour Commissioners needed to employ an artillery expert. Given the risks and logistics. So that probably is a military uniform. Perhaps of the Cork City Artillery (which included a non-professional "militia"). I'll do some research on that. The gun itself was fired at 10am every day. Like other similar guns around the (then dying) empire. Unless the image is staged (and I suppose it quite probably is) that would give us the time of day. Though not the year. Which I'll also have have to think about. Otherwise another key subject here, to my eye at least, is Carrig House. The house on the far right. Later known as the "Marine Radio School", it was used for a time for training ships' radio operators. This doesn't help with date however. And probably just as well. As I really shouldn't be allowed to talk about this house. As it will just get my blood up. Given that, along with too many other historic homes in the city in recent years, has been left to ruin, fire and yet more ruin. By the worst sort of absentee landlord: a state-sponsored one!
guliolopez
In reminding myself about the gun, I found this blog post from Kieran McCarthy. Who confirms that the 18lb gun was the responsibility of the Harbour Commissioners. And fired (with a 3lb charge) since the 1870s. However his final conclusion (about the gun "disappearing physically and from memory" after 1930) confuses me more than a little. While I don't doubt him, if the gun was removed, it (or a replacement) must've been put back at a later date. As there's been a gun there as long as I can remember. As evidenced by these recent shots from the Cork Camera Club. Also, Flickr is sometimes thingamabob: www.flickr.com/photos/carrignafoy/403354327/
Niall McAuley
The catalogue gives a general 1900-1920 date, and I think the girl on the bench's outfit suggests the early part of that range. The buildings opposite are all 1830ish and no help, railway infrastructure 1855ish likewise.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
There are a couple of 'Similar Items' in the NLI catalogue further to the left of this shot, probably the same day. The second one shows a steamer from Cork - can't read its name. May help with date ... catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000290338 catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000299369
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Educated guess 'Pylades' and bingo - " “Pylades,” 1903; 275 tons. Built at Workington. Purchased by the City of Cork Steam Packet Co., Ltd., and subsequently sold." From - olivecolemanfamilyhistory.tripod.com/port.html So we are after 1903 - and the 'Pylades' looks relatively shiny, unrusty and newish ... [d'oh - I posted these comments on the thingamabob photo!]
Niall McAuley
A French/Lawrence L_CAB_01375 nearby in both space and time. L_ROY_07633 shows the gun, looking downstream to the Band House shown on the 25 "map.
guliolopez
I was looking at the OSI map. To see if it would help dating. And the "FS" clearly means "flagstaff". Which was gifted from Canada. And the base of which remains. The "D Fn" is a drinking fountain. Also partially remaining. Seems odd the gun isn't marked though. Otherwise, as [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] says, all the structures on the northside predate this image by at least 50 years. Also not really helping with date. As Niall and [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] say however, I'd agree this is probably 1900. Plus or minus a few years. (Also, given his pillbox hat, I'd imagine the "gunner" is almost certainly a soldier in the artillery. Rather than some promoted punter from within the Harbour Commissioners. The facings on the uniform of the Royal Cork City Artillery were scarlet/red).
Niall McAuley
That DEAD SLOW sign may help, it is not in some of the Lawrences, like L_CAB_01376
guliolopez
Thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley]. I learned something from the L_ROY_07633. Which I didn't know before. Namely that, as we see from a plaque visible in Megazoom (TM), that gun was captured at Sevastapol. In 1855. It also tells me that its the same gun that remains today. As the eagle on the top is the same. Meaning that, I think, Cllr McCarthy is not entirely correct about the gun being removed. Moved/reseated slightly? Yup. Removed/vanished? No.
domenico milella
Congratulation for your beautiful Album.
Niall McAuley
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] L_CAB_02806 puts the gun beside the flag staff.
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
*Update* - the three O'Connor photos were NOT taken on the same day, as previously suggested. Differences in vegetation, open windows, and washing on the line, particularly near the two pale houses in the terrace. i think this photo is slightly (months) earlier than the SS 'Pylades' one.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley I am considering drafting an edict, which would ban extracurricular visits to "The Catalogue" the reason for the edict is to protect against the dreaded "deja vu" moments. A Mary could find a good photo and check if it had been posted before and finding it had not, select said photo and post it with great confidence only to find that it had been referenced to another photo sometime over the last seven years. Dam, I just researched the meaning of Edict and find "an official order or proclamation issued by a person in authority" If only I had Authority!!!! :)
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland I like NLI deja vu moments. It is almost always good to revisit these photos.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Thank you.
abandoned railways
Late to arrive today, just to say the footpath is the track of the original railway to Blackrock when the first terminuswas at Victoria Road, on 6 February 1873 the company commenced running trains from the new Albert Street station and the line ran around Monahan Road. Also, all the land from this embankment to Monahan road is reclamed from the river.
guliolopez
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/abandonedrailsireland] RE: "all the land from this embankment to Monahan road is reclaimed from the river". Sometimes dramatically so. Nearby Dundanion (Galwey's) Castle had a slipway onto the river. A ramp that was (reputedly) used by William Penn prior to the voyage in which he founded Pennsylvania. The castle (and boat ramp) is now a full 500 ft from the river. Ditto Barrington's Folly. A later tower which is now also several hundred feet from the river. Previously used as a beacon/marker for vessels on this stretch of the river, it is now completely invisible from the water. Without the building of the Marina wall, and the narrowing and deepening of the river, larger vessels wouldn't have been able to make it up to the city proper however. And also, on a more personal note, would have given me one less place to drive (and hopefully sit) while driving around trying to get babies to sleep :)
ofarrl
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ the Crimean guns (there were originally two) are not marked on the OSI map but theTime Gun is. I doubt very much if the cannon in the above photo was ever fired after its capture and certainly not while mounted on the fixed wooden support shown in the photos as there would have been no allowance for recoil. According to The Crimean War and Irish Society by Paul Huddie, Cork was the first irish city to ask for Crimean war trophies, their pair of guns arriving by steamer on July 19 1857. According to Paul Huddie the civic ceremony that followed their arrival was the biggest in the country and included guests such as Prince Napolean of France, himself a Crimean War veteran. The Cork Independent has a good description of the procedure involved in firing the Time gun.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Well spotted, back to the drawing board!!
guliolopez
Well blow me down https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]. Thanks for that! I always thought it was further downstream. Delighted to be corrected. Always good to learn something new. And apologies to https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland and the Marys - but someone will need to update the description to correct my error :)
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] We will get to it soon. Mary
nannyjean35
great view
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Thanks all - I have tweaked the description to reflect the more recent updates from https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] et al. I love the iterative process here! :)