Liffey, Dublin City, Co. Dublin

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Where: Dublin, Ireland

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When: 01 January 1885

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Monday morning should be somewhat dismal as the start of yet another week, but this Lawrence image should cheer people up! The River Liffey as none of us has ever seen it - with a bridge that no longer exists (which might help with dating?). There is a speeding 'ghost' showing that horses could really move when they had to!

And indeed the old Butt Bridge (the swing bridge in the left foreground) did help with dating; as Sharon Corbet pointed-out that it opened in 1879. Reducing the catalogue range by 15 years or so. This was reduced further with the state/status of another bridge; as Grumpy Old 'Tog confirmed that Carlisle (O'Connell) Bridge was redeveloped in 1882. But it is the non-existence of the (then very controversial) Loopline Railway Bridge that perhaps helps the most; as, if this were taken in 1889 or later, we'd at least see the initial stages of its construction. The bridges therefore help us confirm a mid-1880s date....


Photographer: Robert French

Collection: Lawrence Photograph Collection

Date: Catalogue range c.1865-1914. Likely c.1882-1889

NLI Ref: L_CAB_02252

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 28125
robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection lawrencephotographicstudio glassnegative nationallibraryofireland riverliffey customshousequay ships bridge opening masts tackle coal horses carts people colliers buttbridge swingbridge quays liffey burghquay edenquay carlislebridge oconnellbridge 1880s lawrencephotographcollection

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  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Oct/2017 07:54:42

    Wow!

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 09/Oct/2017 07:59:01

    Butt Bridge was replaced only in 1932, whereas this version was built in 1879. So not too much help.

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    LucanTram

    • 09/Oct/2017 08:20:28

    No Loop Line Bridge, City of Dublin Junction Railway opened in 1891.

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    Wendy:

    • 09/Oct/2017 08:24:47

    Great to see and note the vantage point details!

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    mcginley2012

    • 09/Oct/2017 08:25:37

    Wonderful! Dublin city in the rare old times.

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 09/Oct/2017 08:27:42

    However, the Loopline Bridge is missing, so before 1889, when construction began.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 09/Oct/2017 08:34:41

    Project history of Dublin’s River Liffey bridges including details construction of the various bridges including Butt Bridge and the Loopline.

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    Inverarra

    • 09/Oct/2017 08:41:50

    Great photo. The bridge nearest the camera must have been moveable in some way to allow shipping through.

  • profile

    LucanTram

    • 09/Oct/2017 08:55:23

    Carlisle Bridge as it then was, is as reconstructed, so 1882 or later.

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    BultacoFan

    • 09/Oct/2017 09:25:39

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Looks like a pivot point underneath the bridge, right enough.

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    sam2cents

    • 09/Oct/2017 09:25:40

    This is a great image! One of those that I suspect will start showing up more and more in articles and books. It definitely raises the spirits, and has a sense of swashbuckling romance to it too.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Oct/2017 09:36:57

    I think I see an ad on a gable there for The Prince Alfred Hotel.

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 09/Oct/2017 09:49:35

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Butt bridge was officially opened in August 1879. A condition in its approval to be built was that it should permit vessels to pass and berth in the river as far upstream as the Carlisle Bridge. The design consisted of a single masonry approach span of 37 ft (11·28 m) from each bank with a central swing span of 127 ft (38·71 m), which provided two 40 ft (12·19 m) wide navigable openings each side of the central pier support structure. The carriageway was 18·5 ft (5·64 m), and there was a 5·5 ft (1·68 m) footpath on each side of the carriageway. The swing section, made of wrought iron and weighing 200 tons, was supported on and ran on a series of cast spoke wheels. The swing section was powered by a steam engine, which was housed on a timber pier at the downstream end of the central pier.

  • profile

    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 09/Oct/2017 09:55:27

    Cast iron URINAL alert ! See note. Vital part of the city's history. Ed. I think it is this one on Eden Quay. What a relief ! https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6826100708/

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 09/Oct/2017 10:01:05

    No electric tram poles

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 09/Oct/2017 10:20:51

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia When a mans gotta go a mans gotta go(?)

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 09/Oct/2017 10:24:43

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland What did the women do?

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    John A. Coffey

    • 09/Oct/2017 11:07:12

    This pile of coal would not last long, they have four weighing scales ready, and maybe a customer at the "office door". Nearly all of Ireland`s coal was imported from the UK at this time.

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    guliolopez

    • 09/Oct/2017 11:24:08

    Loving it. I've written a bit about Dublin's quays and bridges from time to time, and this image really captures both in their 19th century glory :) As mentioned by others, the bridges alone help significantly with dating. In that it is definitely after 1874 (flattening and widening of Essex/Grattan bridge), absolutely after 1879 (old Butt bridge opened), probably after 1882 (flattening and widening works on Carlisle/O'Connell bridge), and before 1891 (construction of Loopline bridge). As with others, and before doing further investigation, I'd say the range is 1882 to 1889. Ish.

  • profile

    Inverarra

    • 09/Oct/2017 12:16:43

    Many thanks for all the wonderful information. Nothing is a bridge too far for NLI followers.

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    foss54

    • 09/Oct/2017 13:34:47

    Beautiful image, fantastic detail.

  • profile

    guliolopez

    • 09/Oct/2017 13:50:44

    Granted I didn't over-stretch myself, but I couldn't refine the proposed 1882-1889 range any further. I did however have fun trying to replicate the roof-top view in Google Earth's 3D overlay :)

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 09/Oct/2017 15:43:52

    For completion's sake: 25" OSI showing the Custom House, the swivel Butt Bridge, and the Loopline. There is also a "Reverse View" with the Custom House, and Butt Bridge, but no Loopline. (Which I admit is weirding me out slightly.)

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    RETRO STU

    • 09/Oct/2017 16:20:45

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia They were fancy pissoirs purchased from France and installed for the benefit of the public who would attend the 31st International Eucharistic Congress of June 1932.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 09/Oct/2017 16:58:45

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] I see from the 1862 Thoms that 55 Lr Sackville Street was occupied by Chancellor and Son, watch and clock makers, 84l. „ Chancellor,G. W. watch & clock mkr. „ Chancellor, Jno. optician and photographer Which ties in nicely with your note. at 56 it says... 56 Kelly, Martin, & Son, fishing tackle manufacturers, and agents to the Kendal Powder Mills, and John Hall and Son, London, 66l. „ Kelly, Richard, j.p., merchant I cannot read the name but I think it could be Kelly?? Dublin Street Directory 1862 [ED: In the meantime, FYI, have updated the map & date range!]

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 09/Oct/2017 20:55:27

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] I have a hunch there were earlier pissoirs and this may be one of them. *researches the history of Irish bogs ...* [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] oops my bad. Should have guessed 'Chancellor' not 'Chandler'. No wonder the Great God of Google knew nothing. John Chancellor was working a photographer in the family watch- and clock-making business at 55 Sackville Street Lower from at least 1862. From 1867 onwards he was listed as a photographer in the commercial section of Thom's Directory. In 1898 the listing was changed to 'Chancellor & Son'. The studio continued until 1923. From - www.irisharchaeology.info/genealogy/photographers.html (useful list, except Mr French is notable for his absence) That corner in c. 1920 by Mr Chancellor - his building had acquired an extra floor and frilly gable (and clock?) - stillslibrary.rte.ie/indexplus/image/0500/040.html

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    RETRO STU

    • 09/Oct/2017 21:21:49

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Don't know about earlier ones, but the pissoir in that photo was one of those installed along the 1932 Eucharistic Congress route.

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    Bernard Healy

    • 09/Oct/2017 21:45:47

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ That was a plot point in Flann O’Brien’s ‘The Hard Life’. One of the main characters was campaigning for Dublin Corporation to provide public facilities for women.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 10/Oct/2017 05:29:05

    "... When the Public Health Committee put out a tender for urinals in 1865, they estimated it would cost £200. They received five tenders, two from Glasgow companies and one from a Kirkintillock company, the others from Dublin. They received a letter from the Glasgow company, emphasising that their quote was the lowest, that the “class of work we supply is inferior to none” and that they employ “a very large number of Irishman in our works”, so the “goods will be of Irish manufacture”. Another report from the Public Health Commitee in the 1860s concerned the sketch plans of a ‘chalet de nécessité’, which included ‘a kiosque for the sale of newspapers’. The committee recommended permission be given, as they “are of the opinion that it will encourage the use of the chalets for the general public”. It appears that people’s bathroom reading habits perhaps haven’t changed much in the past 150 years…" From a fascinating article - www.thejournal.ie/public-toilets-dublin-755462-Jan2013/ Is there evidence of old pissoirs disguised as newsstands in other contemporary photos? I think [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] and [https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner] were experts on this subject.

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    joycenotes

    • 17/Aug/2018 09:18:14

    if that's a urinal, why does the view above show a smoking chimney? i'm hoping it's an earlier design of cabmen's shelter-- small, but too big for a urinal another view, with lots of cabmen: pbs.twimg.com/media/DkoYcAGV4AAELUJ.jpg