Wedding group : commissioned by Mr. Magner, Clonmel
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Where: Unknown
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When: 09 October 1917
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Hats, fur coats, fur stoles, wing collars, centre partings, cows-licks and so much more to show how fashions have changed since this shot was taken for Mr. Magner way back when! I'm not too sure I would want to take on the mother-in-law second from the right!
Quick off the mark this morning, sharon.corbet gave us the text of the newspaper announcement of the wedding pictured:
MAGNER AND SMYTH—October 9, 1917, at Tramore, by the Rev. T. O'Brien, C.C., Passage-West,- William J. Magner, eldest son of John Magner, Clonmel, to Catherine (Kitty) Smyth, daughter of Mr. Edmund Smyth, Cattle Dealer, Clonmel
The date, most of the subjects, and possible town/county locations were therefore identified. And our intrepid band of Flickroonies quickly filled-in some background. Including that the groom (William Magner) was almost certainly from the Clonmel family behind the Magners/Bulmers cider brand. And that the bride's family (Kitty Smyth) was involved in the cattle and newspaper trades in the same town....
Photographer: A. H. Poole
Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford
Date: c.10 October 1917
NLI Ref: POOLEWP 2728
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 29238
Quick off the mark this morning, sharon.corbet gave us the text of the newspaper announcement of the wedding pictured:
MAGNER AND SMYTH—October 9, 1917, at Tramore, by the Rev. T. O'Brien, C.C., Passage-West,- William J. Magner, eldest son of John Magner, Clonmel, to Catherine (Kitty) Smyth, daughter of Mr. Edmund Smyth, Cattle Dealer, Clonmel
The date, most of the subjects, and possible town/county locations were therefore identified. And our intrepid band of Flickroonies quickly filled-in some background. Including that the groom (William Magner) was almost certainly from the Clonmel family behind the Magners/Bulmers cider brand. And that the bride's family (Kitty Smyth) was involved in the cattle and newspaper trades in the same town....
Photographer: A. H. Poole
Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford
Date: c.10 October 1917
NLI Ref: POOLEWP 2728
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 29238
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sharon.corbet
There is an announcement in the Irish Independent of Monday October 15th: MAGNER AND SMYTH—October 9, 1917, at Tramore, by the Rev. T. O'Brien, C.C., Passage-West,- William J. Magner, eldest son of John Magner, Clonmel, to Catherine (Kitty) Smyth, daughter of Mr. Edmund Smyth, Cattle Dealer, Clonmel So it may be William Magner, the original founder of Magners/Bulmers.
Carol Maddock
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet *shaking fist at you* Was just about to contribute exactly the same thing! I'll beat you next time... :)
ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq
Spot the differences! - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000593236 The mother-in-law (Mrs Smyth?) looks happier in the other photo.
Dún Laoghaire Micheál
According to GRO, marriage took place at Tramore RC Church. Celebrant was Thomas O'Brien C.C. Witnesses were John Francis Magner and Mary J Smyth. William J's address was given as Mitchel Street Clonmel. Occupation Merchant.
Dún Laoghaire Micheál
if John Magner Snr was c.70 in this pic, it would tally with a subsequent Death record in 1926, where he was described as Hotel Proprietor aged 79
Dún Laoghaire Micheál
Kitty's address on marriage was O'Connell St Clonmal. Her father, Edmund was a cattle dealer. I'd cautiously speculate that he might be the same as one Edward Lundy Smyth, retired Cattle Dealer of O'Connell Terrace Clonmel who died in 1957 aged 72. That would make him aged 40 at the time of the wedding. (& young enough to be standing somewhere in the back rows). Though his status on death is recorded as bachelor. UPDATED: Edmond Smyth died in 1941. See later comment
sharon.corbet
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Here is Edmond Smyth and family in O'Connell St., Clonmel in 1901, and family without Edmond in 1911.
guliolopez
The lady behind the bride has found a novel way to sneak her dog into the proceedings....
Dún Laoghaire Micheál
https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet Very good. Makes my "Edward Lundy . ." seem a less likely candidate. and yet . . no obvious matching EdMOND death. UPDATED: Edmond Smyth died in 1941. See later comment
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] There was an article in the Indo of Sept. 6 1941 announcing his death at his home in O'Connell St.
La Belle Province
No selfies, so a better time to be alive.
Dún Laoghaire Micheál
Death of father of the bride in 1941 as published in Irish Time 6 Sept.
Dún Laoghaire Micheál
This from IT 16 October. probably our Best man
CHG PRO PHOTOGRAPHY incorporating the APL archives
Almost certainly the cider family, yes!! He'd probably be turning in his grave if he knew about the very large amounts of other cider types and brands that seem to be available in Ireland this summer!!!
Melinda Young Stuart
The clothes say about 1915-19, to me.
Niall McAuley
If both sides are from Clonmel but the wedding was in Tramore, are they back in Clonmel or at some venue near the seaside here?
guliolopez
I went hunting the archives for other mentions of the Smyth/Magner wedding. But could only find the same Indo entry that [https://www.flickr.com/photos/scorbet] posted first thing this morning. Below. The birth-entry immediately prior (both language, type-face and middle-name given the child) intrigued me. www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/34663943626/
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Thanks all! I have updated the date, description and tags. But have not yet been brave enough to update the map. I agree with https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley that it is plausibly a hotel in Tramore (the Sands and Grand hotels perhaps) or a hotel in Clonmel (like Hearns or the Clonmel Arms). It may take a local or familial connect to confirm for certain.....
jamica1
Great set of expressions on their faces.
tomachesontipp
Great photo. My mother's dad Frank Smyth is in the back row. Sad to say the bride ( my Granaunt ) died of the Spanish Flu in 1918.
daogorman
Hi Tom Acheson - Which person in the back row is Frank Smyth? Very sad news about the bride. It is however, a very clear photo. I know J. L. O'Brien is the person standing on the far right in the middle row. He worked for John Francis O'Gorman Coachbuilders in Clonmel - See photo taken in 1922 www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/7095717381 Paraphrasing a comment in the above mentioned photo: In 1925, John F.O'Gorman was elected as the first President of the Clonmel Chamber of Commerce and William Magner was elected Vice President. ************************************* Seeing that Magners Cider is such a big name (and big in Clonmel) it's a shame that not more is known about the Magner family, especially William Magner.