An "Outside car" outside the gates!

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Where: Kerry, Ireland

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When: Unknown

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The description on this image states that this is an "Outside Car" and goes on at length to describe the gates and pillars! But are they still there? Where are/were they? They certainly are very ornate and ostentatious.

With thanks especially today to derangedlemur, we know that these imposing gates and gatelodge are at the start of the driveway to Muckross House in Killarney, County Kerry. The ironwork (attributed to Richard Perrott of Cork) and pillars and gatelodge (seemingly attributed to William Atkins also of Cork) date to 1860. They were probably built before the arrival of Queen Victoria at Muckross in 1861. And, as philfluther suggests in his own enigmatic way, likely intended to impress her madge.

The community points-out that you can get an "Outside car" from the same spot today - just outside the gates.

Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton

Contributor: John Fortune Lawrence

Collection: Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection

Date: Between 1860 - 1883

NLI Ref: STP_0637

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at


Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 19551
lawrencecollection stereographicnegatives jamessimonton frederickhollandmares johnfortunelawrence williammervynlawrence nationallibraryofireland ornategatesandpillars wroughtiron heraldicsymbols outsidecar sidecar jarvey muckross muckrosshouse muckrossroad killarney countykerry gatehouse pillars jauntingcar driver gates wyvern richardperrottandsons hiveironworks gatelodge threelionsrampant locationidentified stereopairsphotographcollection stereopairs

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    • 28/Sep/2016 08:00:51

    Money, money, money was needed to build the gate and lodge to that standard! They were probably broke within a generation?

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Sep/2016 08:09:07

    The description says "possible griffins" but I think those are wyverns or dragons.

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    • 28/Sep/2016 08:13:30

    Crest on pillars could be the Earl of Pembroke?

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Sep/2016 08:13:44

    There are wyverns in the Brabazon arms, but this is not Kilruddery: Kilruddery Gardens - Ireland

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    • 28/Sep/2016 08:26:38

    It looks like Muckross House gate lodge. Does it have Wyverns? Edit: Actually, no. The bay window is the wrong shape. Extra edit: It must be Muckross. I must just not be able to see the bay window properly because there's a pillar in the way. It's got a new chimney but it looks identical otherwise.

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    • 28/Sep/2016 08:41:54

    Yes, it's Muckross,-9.4909675,3a,69.8y,297.49...

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    • 28/Sep/2016 08:50:16

    Via streetview above they are still hiring out outside cars outside the gates across the street. Well done The Lemur !

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    • 28/Sep/2016 08:54:56[email protected] Good job.

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    • 28/Sep/2016 09:58:41 I only see 2 legs, which would make them wyverns. That matches with the Herbert family crest: "a wyvern vert, holding in the mouth a sinister hand couped at the wrist gu".

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Sep/2016 11:52:56

    Gwan the lemur! Per the NIAH: Gateway, built c. 1860, to south comprising pair of limestone ashlar piers with triangular capping having cast-iron gates, curved quadrant walls with limestone ashlar panels and dressings having cast-iron railings. No mention of wyverns.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Sep/2016 12:01:22

    Using the 1860 date, we have, at the DIA: Name: ATKINS, WILLIAM Building: CO. KERRY, MUCKROSS HOUSE (KILLARNEY) Date: 1857 Nature: Gates, farm, church, porte cochère, for Col Henry Herbert. Gates executed by Perrot, Cork. Church built by Evans. Refs: Irish Times, 28 Dec 1860; DB 3, 1 Jan 1861, 387; Irish Times, 28 Dec 1860; Jeremy Williams, 'William Atkins 1812-1887, a forgotten Cork Pre-Raphaelite' in A. Bernelle (ed.), Decantations: a tribute to Maurice Craig (1992), 244,249

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    Niall McAuley

    • 28/Sep/2016 12:13:29

    Perrot above is Richard Perrott and Sons of Hive Ironworks, Hanover Street, Cork. The family were still Ironfounders named Richard in 1901

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    • 28/Sep/2016 13:28:08

    Comments 3. Munificence, possibly to land Victoria. Next the avenue, Blue Pool River Bridge. Monogram "H H H". A Kerry sojourn.

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    • 28/Sep/2016 15:56:55

    Outside cars are still outside

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 28/Sep/2016 21:34:06

    Excellent thanks all - especially [[email protected]] for the location confirmation. The gates certainly impressed us - but we hadn't considered that they were likely intended to impress such a grand visitor! Given that the catalogue description describes the arms as "3 lions rampant", one imagines that these are the arms of the Herbert family - likely representing Henry Arthur Herbert and Mary Balfour Herbert who built and owned the house at the time(?) Any "heralds" out there who might confirm? (Oh wait.... we have one on site :) .... ) Thanks all again. Brilliant sleuthing and architectural history on display today as usual. Description, map, tags and etc all updated to try and capture even a slice of it.

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    • 28/Sep/2016 22:04:36

    Via Trove Queen Victoria's visit in August 1861; she was very impressed -

    ...The Queen spent a most agreeable day, and appeared all through to be greatly delighted, and repeatedly expressed lier unqualified admiration of the scenery. His Royal Highness the Prince Consort said many portions were sublime. So charmed was the Queen that she stayed on the lakes nearly two hours longer than was originally proposed. ...

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    domenico milella

    • 29/Sep/2016 07:42:21

    Congratulation for your beautiful Album. Nice day.