Unidentified image? Not for long! It's Cork of course

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Where: Cork, Ireland

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When: 01 January 1900

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
This urban scene dominated by that distinctive tower is listed in the catalogue as "Unidentified Photograph from the Fergus O'Connor Collection" but that won't last too long! It is a particularly pleasant shot with lots of detail to feast the eye upon!

We'd originally thought this image (of Cork's Northside of course) dated to perhaps c.1900. And, with thanks to some searching through Guys Almanac by guliolopez, a range in the early 1900s would seem to be confirmed. We also find evidence of the ever-present pissoir in these street images, close to a possible cab rank on Pope's Quay....


Photographer: Fergus O’Connor

Collection: Fergus O’Connor Collection

Date: >1897 (Andrew's wool mcht closes). <1910 (Bible Brother's closed)

NLI Ref: OCO 141-2

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 24227
northcathedral cork northgatebridge stannesshandon shandon shandonstreet popesquay northgatetavern biblebrothers munsterroompaperdepot taxirank murphysstout newsomesquay caseystores ferguso’connor ferguso’connorcollection bridge fourfacedliar pissoir chaletdenécessité nicholasokeefe patrickcasey locationidentified

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  • profile

    O Mac

    • 21/Apr/2016 08:08:05

    Cork.... somewhere in ireland! Streetview

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    Tom Kennedy1

    • 21/Apr/2016 08:25:08

    Northgate Bridge, Cork.

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    Cecilia Temperli

    • 21/Apr/2016 08:29:48

    How great is google? I live in Australia and love the presentation of these historic shots. I too came up with 'Cork' and this is something else I found: oldphotosofcork.wordpress.com/2014/07/04/the-burning-of-s...

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    Gregory PC

    • 21/Apr/2016 08:55:17

    The old original bridge and streetlamps are so much nicer!

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    O Mac

    • 21/Apr/2016 09:06:42

    Anyone know whatever happened to the Dunscombe fountain in Browns Square? [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gregcarey] I agree. The old bridge was a lot more graceful.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 21/Apr/2016 09:14:42

    Before 1925 (Red brick building visible in Streetview from that date)

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    Swordscookie

    • 21/Apr/2016 09:22:47

    I love this shot! There is so much to see and enjoy in it. The washing ghosting on the top left as it blows in the wind, the sign for Sutton Coals, the Shandon Tower up on the hill, just lovely!

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    derangedlemur

    • 21/Apr/2016 10:00:50

    I thought we had a grocers' apostrophe on that gable wall, but the census reveals that it's actually the emporium of Mr William Henry Bible.

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    O Mac

    • 21/Apr/2016 10:19:25

    The "P Casey. Stores" building on the left was plastered since W.L. was there. L_CAB_05246

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    Niall McAuley

    • 21/Apr/2016 10:36:37

    The street numbers don't agree, but I think we should see this building from 1880?

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    Rory_Sherlock

    • 21/Apr/2016 12:03:09

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley No Niall, I think that building is out of sight - compare L_CAB_05246 posted by O Mac to see it before the facade was changed.

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    guliolopez

    • 21/Apr/2016 12:25:40

    Wayhay. Cork. The cast-iron Northgate Bridge pictured was in place from 1864 to 1961, when the (less graceful) concrete one was built. (Even the iron one was not universally welcomed in the 19th century though, so fashions and what's considered "nice" may swing towards the concrete yoke eventually). The fountain in Browns Square was installed in 1883 and removed in the early 20th century. (Exact date and where it went I'm not sure, but can try to find out). 70 Shandon Street (with the "Northgate House" signage) is now more commonly called Clock House. It was once associated with O'Connor Bros Funeral Directors. They moved a few doors down (out of shot behind Casey's to left). They were among the first nationally to operate "removals" from their premises. Before that removals were from the home or the morgue. The left-most corner building (with figure(s) in the doorway) is now the Friary pub, previously the North Gate Tavern and (as pictured) was once Casey Stores. It's association with Murphy's is understandable - given that Murphy's Brewery is only a few hundred yards out of shot to the left. (Go past Boole's house and you can't miss it). Am intrigued by the big line of cabs along Pope's Quay. I think it was a terminus for one of the harbour steamer routes, but might see if there's a confirmation of that. I might also take a look at Guy's to try and filter the date, but I recon this could be late 19th Century, rather than early 20th....

  • profile

    guliolopez

    • 21/Apr/2016 12:29:00

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Not quite. The building we can see (#70, with the painted lettering on the upper floors labelling as NorthGateHouse) is immediately to the right of that gable fronted-building at #69. So, it is probably there. Just hidden behind Casey's on the corner. (See how the corner building "covers" it in this streetview also).

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 21/Apr/2016 12:35:58

    About the bridge - ... In April 1863, the foundation stone for the new bridge was laid. The new bridge was to be a cast-iron structure with the iron work completed by Ranking & Co. of Liverpool. An ornate Victorian style was incorporated into the new structure with features such as ornamental lampposts and iron medallions depicting Queen Victoria, Albert the Prince Consort, Daniel O’ Connell, the Irish ”Liberator” and Sir Thomas Moore, the famous English poet. The new North Gate Bridge was officially opened on the 17th March, St. Patrick’s Day 1864 by the Mayor John Francis Maguire in the company of Sir John Benson, the designer and Barry McMullen, the contractor. Nearly 100 years later – circa early 1960s, the bridge would have to be reconstructed again due to increased traffic. ... Why the St Anne's church clock is difficult to read - ...The clock of Shandon with its four white faces was installed by Cork Corporation in 1847. It was made by James Mangan, a successful Cork watch-maker. The clock on Shandon is an efficient time keeper except for the fact that the minute hands on the east and west faces always go ahead of their accomplices, the north and south hands in the ascent from the half hour to the hour. Therefore obtaining its title, “the four-faced liar”. Nevertheless, complete concurrence is attained once more at the hour. ... From - corkheritage.ie/?page_id=434

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    Ghost Radio

    • 21/Apr/2016 13:55:45

    You can see the top of the North Cathedral peeping over the buildings on the left at the bottom of Shandon Street.

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    guliolopez

    • 21/Apr/2016 17:15:49

    Well. I just went through the Guys Directories from the 1870s through the 1940s. I was hoping that I could use O'Keefe's (the Newsagent/Framers/Fruiters at 61/a Shandon Street, with the signs and men outside) as a benchmark for date. But, to my surprise, at least one O'Keefe (mainly those called Nicholas) operated at that premises from the early 1880s right through the 1940s. 60 years of selling papers (and fruit) from the same spot. Brilliant for them. Less ideal as an aid to further refining the range.... The "Munster Room Paper Depot" (owned/operated by a Mr WH Bible) also advertises in the 1883 Guys directory. (As indicated by the apostrophe in the signage on the building, they don't sell bibles, Bible's the man's name.) Anyway, Bible Brothers appears in directories from the 1880s, and in the directory for 1907 is still at 17 and 18 Pope's Quay. But they are gone by 1910. So 1910 would seem to be the latest date in the range. So, between the fountain and the directories, we're still in a range between 1883 and 1910.

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    robinparkes

    • 21/Apr/2016 17:54:32

    I've only seen it. How could anyone miss St. Anne's parish church in Shandon? I was there six years ago.

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    dorameulman

    • 21/Apr/2016 20:14:31

    A lovely look at Shandon, Cork. Thanks :-)

  • profile

    sam2cents

    • 21/Apr/2016 21:50:52

    Beautiful image too.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 21/Apr/2016 22:21:01

    Thanks all. Have tried to capture a summary (and date) in the description. One question though - the strange looking structure that straddles the quay wall on Pope's Quay (alongside the apparent "taxi rank" that [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] points-out), do we think that's the chalet de nécessité that is marked on the OSI map?

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 21/Apr/2016 23:07:22

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Yes! There is still a hexagonal blip in the wall and an overhang, like a garderobe. Guarded by a couple of pigeons on streetview - goo.gl/maps/ygdsWxWrYn62 . From the other side of the river that piece of wall is whitewashed and a plant is flourishing downstream! - goo.gl/maps/7sv66qfaTXB2

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    guliolopez

    • 21/Apr/2016 23:21:56

    OK. So I went a bit mad on this one. I trawled through the almanacs from 1893 through 1910. Again. Looking for evidence of the 4 main business we see (Casey's on the corner, #70 to it's right, O'Keefe's on Browns Sqr, and Bible Bros down Pope's Quay). See extracts below. In short, I now think the image likely dates between ~1898 and ~1909. Reason being: - 70 Shandon St definitely says "Grocery and Provisions" on the shop sign. Meaning that Mrs Andrew's Wool Merchant business was gone. Possibly closed up after the death of her husband Thomas (who I would guess passed-away 1893-1897. O'Keefe had taken over that premises by 1903 and was still there after 1907. - 16-18 Pope's Quay is at peak Bible Brothers. Spanning All three frontages. They seemingly sold/moved from #16 by 1907 and gone entirely from #17+18 by 1910. Casey's and Keefe's out-spanned the Andrews' and Bible's, covering several decades either side, but I recon this image dates from the last year or two of the 1890s, through to the first five or six years of the 1900s. (So pretty much the "c.1900" Morning Mary had originally :) ) ##Amlanac entries## 1891 Shandon St - 61 - O'Keefe N, newsagent - 62 - Casey P, vintner - 70 - Andrews Thos, wool merchant Popes Qy - 15 - Bible George FE - 16 - Bible WH, decorator etc - 17 - Bible Bros, oil and colour merchants 1893 Shandon St - 61 - O'Keefe N, newsagent - 62 - Casey P, vintner - 70 - Andrews Thos, wool merchant Popes Qy - 16 - Bible WH, decorator - 17,18 - Bible Bros, oil and colour merchants 1897 (Andrews still at 70 Shandon St) Shandon St - 61 - O'Keefe N, newsagent and picture frame manufacturer - 62 - Casey P, vintner - 70 - Andrews Mrs, wool merchant Popes Qy - 16 - Bible WH, decorator - 17,18 - Bible Bros, oil and colour merchants 1903 (O'Keefe at 70 Shandon St) Shandon St - 61 - O'Keefe N, newsagent and picture frame manufacturer - 62 - Casey P, vintner - 70 - O'Keefe N, grocery and provision warehouse Popes Quay - 16,17,18 - Bible Bros ltd, oil and colour merchants, decorators, paperhangers, etc 1907 Shandon St - 61 - O'Keefe N, newsagent and picture frame manufacturer - 62 - Casey P, vintner - 70 - O'Keefe N, grocery and provision warehouse Popes Quay - 16 Sheehan Daniel - 17,18 - Bible Wm H & Co, oil and colour merchants, decorators, paperhangers, etc 1910 (Bible Bros gone from Pope's quay) Shandon St - 61 - O'Keefe N, TC, newsagent and picture frame manufacturer - 62 - Casey P, vintner - 70 - O'Keefe N, confectionry warehouse Popes Qy - 16 - Cork Cap Factory, T O'Gorman prop - 17 - Vacant - 18 - Peters Brothers, wholesale yeast salt and flour merchants

  • profile

    maorlando - God keeps me as I lean on Him!!

    • 21/Apr/2016 23:39:30

    Y'all always make your NLI photos take on a life of their own... luv the input and the photos... loved visiting twice the land of my forefathers... thanks for all the great insight & information!!! Wishing you a blessed San Jacinto Day from Texas... Hugs!!!

  • profile

    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 22/Apr/2016 00:27:32

    pissoir? there was one on here a long time ago... nice stuff

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    Niall McAuley

    • 22/Apr/2016 06:08:15

    Nicholas O'Keefe was on Shandon Street in 1901, although the census says in #61. The numbers don't always match street numbers, though.