Baron and Baroness de Neufligne (or Neuflize)

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Where: Kilkenny, Ireland

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When: 01 January 1912

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An unusual one this morning, we find a couple with a title in a very posed shot. But we wondered who they are and where was it taken?

Almost immediately, our intrepid Flickroonies identified that the catalogue title was slightly incorrect. We have established that we are looking at a lovely shot of the Baron and Baroness de Neuflize. From France no less. Community consensus holds that it was taken at Bessborough Estate in County Kilkenny - the home of the Ponsonby family, and a great house we and Poole have visited before. Based on diary and newspaper "society" entries it is understood that this picture was taken in late August or early September 1912. They were visiting the new "in-laws" following a June marriage between their daughter Roberte and Vere Ponsonby of Bessborough.

The entire community had lots to add on this one, but with thanks especially to O Mac, yorkshire.images, John Spooner, beachcomberaustralia and sharon.corbet for the inputs on location, dates, subject and sourcing the often fascinating contemporary newspaper reports on the wedding and subsequent society events. Amongst the different texts, yorkshire.images highlights an extract from a 24 August 1912 entry of Lady Layard's diary:

"In the evening Baron & Baroness de Neuflize arrived on a visit from Paris. They are the parents of Robert(e) Duncannon & have not been here before."

(She doesn't mention the splendid hat...)


Photographer: A.H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford

Date: ca. 1901-1954 (but likely August/September 1912)

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 2399

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 25901
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative neuflize wedding hat meetthefockers bessboroughhouse countykilkenny societyaffair barondeneuflize jeandeneuflize madeleinedollfusdavillier baronessdeneuflize ponsonby inlaws bessborough poolephotographiccollection

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  • profile

    O Mac

    • 17/Sep/2015 07:33:11

    de Neuflize? If this is the same Baron Jean de Neuflize (1850-1928) he was a French banker who's main claim to fame was winning a bronze at the Paris 1900 Olymipics for Mail Coach driving.

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    bawdy kittens

    • 17/Sep/2015 08:09:25

    As O Mac says I suspect this is the Parisian banker Baron Jean Poupart de Neuflize and his wife. Their only daughter Roberte (born 1892) married Vere Brabazon Ponsonby, son of Edward Ponsonby, Viscount Duncannon (later Earl of Bessborough).

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    O Mac

    • 17/Sep/2015 08:34:27

    Possibly taken at Bessborough , Piltown, Co Kilkenny. Poole has our Baron there with group and another Bessborough photograph of a vase/urn matching the one in the photo.

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    derangedlemur

    • 17/Sep/2015 08:55:52

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] The map matches, anyway: maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,646779,622713,12,9

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    O Mac

    • 17/Sep/2015 09:10:39

    Bessborough was burnt down in 1923 and rebuilt 1929 to accommodate use as convent and then became an agricultural college, post-1944. (NIAH) So 1901 to Pre 1923.. His homburg would suggest post 1910

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 17/Sep/2015 09:21:23

    Thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] and [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] - given that the "Barony de Neuflinge" doesn't seem to be a recognised title, and the connection between the Ponsonby/Bessborough and Poupart/deNeuflize families, it seems we're already hot on the trail of subject and location. It would be great to confirm, but it would seem fairly likely the photo was taken around the time of the 1912 marriage between the two families. (And we haven't even had our elevenses yet :) )

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    Niall McAuley

    • 17/Sep/2015 09:26:32

    The stonework behind does look like Bessborough house in this Poole image

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    bawdy kittens

    • 17/Sep/2015 09:45:19

    Lady Layard (in the group photo at Bessborough) kept a journal and on the 24th August 1912 she wrote (from Bessborough) ... "In the evening Baron & Baroness de Neuflize arrived on a visit from Paris. They are the parents of Robert (sic) Duncannon & have not been here before." For "Robert Duncannon" read Roberte ... she married Vere Ponsonby (Viscount Duncannon) in Paris on the 25th June 1912. Lady Layard died in Venice on the 1st November 1912. www.browningguide.org/browningscircle.php

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    philipgmayer

    • 17/Sep/2015 09:47:40

    She wouldn't need a parasol with that hat!

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    sharon.corbet

    • 17/Sep/2015 09:53:26

    From the French wiki on Jean de Neuflize, the baroness was named Madeleine Dollfus-Davillier.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 17/Sep/2015 09:56:44

    Golly! ... the wedding was even news in Australia - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/72447575 . And the "Mammoth Wedding Presents" - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/177072342

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    sharon.corbet

    • 17/Sep/2015 09:57:08

    The Chicago Times had a write-up on the marriage of Viscount Duncannon and Roberte de Neuflize.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 17/Sep/2015 10:20:55

    Anyone else think the Baroness resembles Mae West ? https://www.flickr.com/photos/castlekay/640560798/Say what you want about long dresses, but they cover a multitude of shins.

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    La Belle Province

    • 17/Sep/2015 11:13:42

    Holy hat and a half!

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    Niall McAuley

    • 17/Sep/2015 11:52:10

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] So this is probably August 1912, and definitely no earlier ("have not been here before"), and no later than 1923 (when Bessborough burned down).

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    Inverarra

    • 17/Sep/2015 12:00:03

    What an elegant portrait. Thanks.

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    Swordscookie

    • 17/Sep/2015 13:58:19

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia "Say what you want about long dresses, but they cover a multitude of shins." Now if that is not a quote from Mae West then it should be!!!!! Nice one. A really nice shot NLI, elegant and interesting. Demonstrating the late Mr. Poole's skills at photography!

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    O Mac

    • 17/Sep/2015 14:49:10

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] You're spot on with position on map. Location being ithe east side in the corner between gable and curved wall. The above urn is just visible in the far distance behind the right hand tree in this other Poole shot of the house. www.nli.ie/glassplates/P_WP/P_WP_0135a.jpg

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    maorlando - God keeps me as I lean on Him!!

    • 17/Sep/2015 15:05:57

    Wonderful work by all as usual! Thanks for sharing all the great information! Truly makesthe poportrait come alive! Greetings from Texas by a Texan with wonderful Irish lineage! I need y'all with your amazing talents for solving mysteries to help me get across the water with my Hennessey roots! I always am so impressed with how quickly you solve and gather so much information! Cheers!

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    John Spooner

    • 17/Sep/2015 16:29:50

    The wedding of the couple pictured wasn't too shabby either. It even made the "General News" column of The Royal Cornwall Gazette, Falmouth Packet, and General Advertiser, Saturday, May 09, 1874 neuflize

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    bawdy kittens

    • 17/Sep/2015 16:51:11

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Lady Layard left Bessborough for London on the 2nd September 1912. bulibtools.net/layard/xml.php?fn=19120902.xml She is on the right of the group photo at Bessborough and the Baron & Baroness are wearing the same clothes (and hats!) as here so presumably (maybe) this photo here was taken on the same day as the group photo, sometime between 24th August and 2nd September 1912. oi61.tinypic.com/r2j5ns.jpg

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    bawdy kittens

    • 17/Sep/2015 21:47:45

    The young lady in the middle back row of the group may well be Roberte. oi61.tinypic.com/r2j5ns.jpg And I suppose the gent on her right would be her newly wed husband Vere Ponsonby, Viscount Duncannon. But that's just pure speculation and probably dangerous.

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    silverio10

    • 17/Sep/2015 21:55:11

    Buena serie de fotos antiguas .

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 18/Sep/2015 00:42:18

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Je parle francais. The baron was a banker and an equestrian bronze medal winner at the 1900 Olympics with 4 horse team (an unrecognized sport by the current Olympic committee). He was chairman of the Evian water company (yes, that one), the Ottoman Bank, vice president of the Portuguese tobacco company, president of a Spanish mortgage bank and of the Silesia Zinc Mines. also a member of the French Hippic Society (horses) and the French steeple chase society. He died in 1928

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 18/Sep/2015 00:43:43

    Ah l'Irlande. I will add the photo the French article. with many "merci" from the Wiki.

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    O Mac

    • 18/Sep/2015 01:04:37

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Re "group" photograph...I think the guy on her right is Granville Ponsonby brother of Edward (8th Earl of Bessborough) From l/r back row. Baron de Neuflize, Granville Ponsonby, Roberte de Neuflize, her husband Vere Brabazon Ponsonby, Lady Layard Front l/r Blanche Vere Ponsonby(Countess of Bessborough), Baroness de Neuflinge and Edward Ponsonby (8th Earl of Bessborough) Countess Blanche Ponsonby (nee Guest) was Lady Layards sister.Mary Enid Evelyn Layard (Guest)

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Sep/2015 03:46:24

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Moi aussi. I was just too lazy to translate it :-)

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    sharon.corbet

    • 18/Sep/2015 04:12:37

    There's an interesting contrast with a house party at Bessborough sometime around a decade earlier. Before 1906, as I think that's the 7th Earl. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] That dates can be further cut down - Lady Layard mentions that Edward went to London on the Monday, and only returns early on the Friday morning, again assuming that the photos were all taken on the same occasion. (You'd think that she'd mention being photographed wouldn't you).

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 19/Sep/2015 01:28:25

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] haha, c'est bien! Great history here in Canada with the Irish and French, catholic and they both didn't like the English very much ;)

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    La Belle Province

    • 19/Sep/2015 02:39:38

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] We have a huge Irish heritage here in Montreal, where supposedly 40% of the population is of Irish descent.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 19/Sep/2015 09:37:07

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] & [https://www.flickr.com/photos/la_belle_province] There's another connection with Canada here - the son-in-law, whose marriage we are talking about above, became the Governor General of Canada 1931-35 - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vere_Ponsonby,_9th_Earl_of_Bessboro...

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    Σταύρος

    • 22/Sep/2015 15:53:20

    Very nice 😊

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    eyelightfilms

    • 10/Nov/2015 23:52:37

    Unusual placement of the ticket pocket on the Baron's jacket.