St Patrick's Church Downpatrick.

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Where: Northern Ireland, Down, United Kingdom

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1880

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
After a relatively long search Liam O'Hara identified the Church as St Patrick's, Dungannon, County Down, Northern ireland.

Niall McAuley narrowed the date range to 1872 - 1883. Thanks also to Niall who used the word Trefoil - a new word to me.

Trefoil (from Latin trifolium, "three-leaved plant", French trèfle, Italian trifoglio, German Dreiblatt and Dreiblattbogen, Dutch klaver same as clubs) is a graphic form composed of the outline of three overlapping rings used in architecture and Christian symbolism. From: Google

A spire was added but not until 1895.

A big thank you to all who took time to search this one for us.


Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton

Contributor: John Fortune Lawrence

Collection: The Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection

Date: 1872 - 1883

NLI Ref: STP_2217

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 25389
lawrencecollection stereographicnegatives jamessimonton frederickhollandmares johnfortunelawrence williammervynlawrence nationallibraryofireland modernchurch lacksspire spire squaretower institutionalbuilding rosewindow downpatrick stpatrickschurchdownpatrick codown northernireland trefoil locationidentified stereopairsphotographcollection stereopairs

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  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 06:59:44

    I think this is a tough challenge.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 07:14:53

    I've definitely seen it in the flesh. Now it's just a matter of cranking up the memory (which doesn't really work properly any more).

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 07:42:17

    It's weirdly ecumenical. The lodge is very C of I and the cross is empty, but the church itself looks RC, and the gateposts could be either.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 07:52:32

    It seems to be attached to an ecclesiastical complex of some sort, for which reasom I'm inclined to think RC.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 08:11:14

    It's beside a load of limerick stuff in the catalogue

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    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 08:58:13

    It just looks like so many other churches of that vintage. (If I hadn't been smacked in the head with a car I'd have got this hours ago grumble grumble etc...)

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 09:06:42

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I did say it was difficult!!

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 09:10:09

    I don't think we are 100% finished with this one - do look if you have not already done so. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/16473744890/in/photostream/

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Mar/2015 09:19:24

    I think it is quite likely that this church has a spire now, which makes it harder!

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 09:27:37

    The rose and door, together with the dressed stone are distinctive enough. It's part of something though, but what? Is it a school, a hospital or a nunnery? I can think of a couple of examples of each that look more or less like that. (it's not any of them, btw).

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 02/Mar/2015 09:40:34

    The link and reference number in the catalogue seem to be mixed up - it should be STP_2217 rather than 1617.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 10:15:23

    It's very like Kilmallock, but not quite the same.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 10:58:55

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Sharon - Links corrected. Thanks.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Mar/2015 11:17:47

    Kilmallock, you say, JJ Mccarthy, hmmm... No, it is like but unlike the Convent of Mercy in Tralee.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 11:33:42

    There's dozens that it's like, but no exact matches, and nothing like the surroundings. I'm fairly sure I know it though, and will be saying "Of course!" when it is finally revealed.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 12:22:33

    I have had a search and I do not think it is Kerry, Cork, Limerick nor Clare, for what it's worth. Mary

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 13:08:29

    It's not a Building of Ireland from between 1860 and 1900; it could still be later. Or Ulster. There's a certain amount of this sort of architecture in the north.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Mar/2015 13:43:01

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] It's an STP image, so definitely before 1883.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 13:56:53

    I'd have thought the style is too modern to be pre-1860, but maybe not.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 15:31:45

    Interesting, the first time you guys have been Stumped since we started posting again - Keep at it, Mary

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 16:45:49

    Never mind stumped; I think it's a travesty that I'm taking more than five minutes to identify a scene that I think I recognise.

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 17:12:53

    You'd think a search for "gothic revival hospital ireland" would turn it up, but apparently not!

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 18:02:37

    The battlements on the porch of the house is very seaside-y

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 02/Mar/2015 18:54:43

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] The church looks really familiar to me too, but not the rest of it. However I have spent the day looking at what feels like half the churches and similar buildings in Ireland, with no result...

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 19:06:22

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Dont give up yet!!

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Mar/2015 19:33:54

    trefoil, rose window, unfinished steeple did not help either. I found a few other churches with unfinished steeples, but not this one,

  • profile

    Estuary Pig

    • 02/Mar/2015 20:10:16

    It's St. Patrick's church in Downpatrick

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  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 20:32:14

    Here from our own Catalogue: catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000338416 and catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000318856 and catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000338426

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Mar/2015 20:42:27

    Hooray! Well done Liam! From the DIA this shot must be between 1872 and 1892. Which means between 1872 and 1883, since all the STPs are 1883 latest. Name: O'NEILL & BYRNE Building: CO. DOWN, DOWNPATRICK, CHURCH OF ST PATRICK (RC) Date: 1868-72 Nature: New church on site of old chapel, for Fr. Patrick O'Kane. FS laid 13 Mar 1868. Dedicated 30 Jun 1872. Name: THOMSON, MORTIMER H. Building: CO. DOWN, DOWNPATRICK, CHURCH OF ST PATRICK (RC) Date: 1892 Nature: Addition of tower and spire. Refs: Architect 47, 6 May 1892, suppl. p.13

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Mar/2015 20:43:18

    In this Streetview you can see the castly bits on the porch are still there.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Mar/2015 20:47:40

    The building next door was a convent of the Sisters of Mercy until 2011.

  • profile

    Estuary Pig

    • 02/Mar/2015 21:00:18

    It did help living in Downpatrick!

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 21:11:21

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] From discover Northern Ireland The foundation stone of this church was laid by Bishop Dorrian in 1886. The church and neighbouring convent of the Sisters of Mercy were built in Gothic Revival style. The church spire was added in 1895 This is way outside our accepted dates for the STP Collection??? The first date is probably transposed, 1886 rather than 1868 - see next Comment

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 21:16:26

    From the Church website the dates are given as St. Patrick's Church was built on Mount St. Patrick in the years 1868 to 1872. History - St Patricks Church

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 02/Mar/2015 21:42:02

    www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Well done! I am now, as per prediction, kicking myself. I've seen this church several times.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Mar/2015 21:55:08

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks for trying, another day and you would have identified it within minutes. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Am I imagining it or is the spire on the building to the left different in the streetview versus the original?

  • profile

    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 03/Mar/2015 01:08:38

    Boy, that's quite the spire they added. I've been to the Dungannon in Ontario, here in Canada. Nice to see the Irish version also :)

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 03/Mar/2015 08:27:57

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Yes, I think the convent tower has been rebuilt in a simpler style.