St Patrick's Church Downpatrick.
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Where: Northern Ireland, Down, United Kingdom
Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.
When: 01 January 1880
Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
After a relatively long search Liam O'Hara identified the Church as St Patrick's, Dungannon, County Down, Northern ireland.
Niall McAuley narrowed the date range to 1872 - 1883. Thanks also to Niall who used the word Trefoil - a new word to me.
Trefoil (from Latin trifolium, "three-leaved plant", French trèfle, Italian trifoglio, German Dreiblatt and Dreiblattbogen, Dutch klaver same as clubs) is a graphic form composed of the outline of three overlapping rings used in architecture and Christian symbolism. From: Google
A spire was added but not until 1895.
A big thank you to all who took time to search this one for us.
Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton
Contributor: John Fortune Lawrence
Collection: The Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection
Date: 1872 - 1883
NLI Ref: STP_2217
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 26158
Niall McAuley narrowed the date range to 1872 - 1883. Thanks also to Niall who used the word Trefoil - a new word to me.
Trefoil (from Latin trifolium, "three-leaved plant", French trèfle, Italian trifoglio, German Dreiblatt and Dreiblattbogen, Dutch klaver same as clubs) is a graphic form composed of the outline of three overlapping rings used in architecture and Christian symbolism. From: Google
A spire was added but not until 1895.
A big thank you to all who took time to search this one for us.
Photographers: Frederick Holland Mares, James Simonton
Contributor: John Fortune Lawrence
Collection: The Stereo Pairs Photograph Collection
Date: 1872 - 1883
NLI Ref: STP_2217
You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie
Info:
Owner: National Library of Ireland on The CommonsSource: Flickr Commons
Views: 26158
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National Library of Ireland on The Commons
I think this is a tough challenge.
derangedlemur
I've definitely seen it in the flesh. Now it's just a matter of cranking up the memory (which doesn't really work properly any more).
derangedlemur
It's weirdly ecumenical. The lodge is very C of I and the cross is empty, but the church itself looks RC, and the gateposts could be either.
derangedlemur
It seems to be attached to an ecclesiastical complex of some sort, for which reasom I'm inclined to think RC.
derangedlemur
It's beside a load of limerick stuff in the catalogue
derangedlemur
It just looks like so many other churches of that vintage. (If I hadn't been smacked in the head with a car I'd have got this hours ago grumble grumble etc...)
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] I did say it was difficult!!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
I don't think we are 100% finished with this one - do look if you have not already done so. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/16473744890/in/photostream/
Niall McAuley
I think it is quite likely that this church has a spire now, which makes it harder!
derangedlemur
The rose and door, together with the dressed stone are distinctive enough. It's part of something though, but what? Is it a school, a hospital or a nunnery? I can think of a couple of examples of each that look more or less like that. (it's not any of them, btw).
sharon.corbet
The link and reference number in the catalogue seem to be mixed up - it should be STP_2217 rather than 1617.
derangedlemur
It's very like Kilmallock, but not quite the same.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Sharon - Links corrected. Thanks.
Niall McAuley
Kilmallock, you say, JJ Mccarthy, hmmm... No, it is like but unlike the Convent of Mercy in Tralee.
derangedlemur
There's dozens that it's like, but no exact matches, and nothing like the surroundings. I'm fairly sure I know it though, and will be saying "Of course!" when it is finally revealed.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
I have had a search and I do not think it is Kerry, Cork, Limerick nor Clare, for what it's worth. Mary
derangedlemur
It's not a Building of Ireland from between 1860 and 1900; it could still be later. Or Ulster. There's a certain amount of this sort of architecture in the north.
Niall McAuley
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] It's an STP image, so definitely before 1883.
derangedlemur
I'd have thought the style is too modern to be pre-1860, but maybe not.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Interesting, the first time you guys have been Stumped since we started posting again - Keep at it, Mary
derangedlemur
Never mind stumped; I think it's a travesty that I'm taking more than five minutes to identify a scene that I think I recognise.
derangedlemur
You'd think a search for "gothic revival hospital ireland" would turn it up, but apparently not!
derangedlemur
The battlements on the porch of the house is very seaside-y
sharon.corbet
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] The church looks really familiar to me too, but not the rest of it. However I have spent the day looking at what feels like half the churches and similar buildings in Ireland, with no result...
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Dont give up yet!!
Niall McAuley
trefoil, rose window, unfinished steeple did not help either. I found a few other churches with unfinished steeples, but not this one,
Estuary Pig
It's St. Patrick's church in Downpatrick
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Well Done Liam, so it is. From Liam's own photostream https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/13222898533/ and from https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5893069425
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Here from our own Catalogue: catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000338416 and catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000318856 and catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000338426
Niall McAuley
Hooray! Well done Liam! From the DIA this shot must be between 1872 and 1892. Which means between 1872 and 1883, since all the STPs are 1883 latest. Name: O'NEILL & BYRNE Building: CO. DOWN, DOWNPATRICK, CHURCH OF ST PATRICK (RC) Date: 1868-72 Nature: New church on site of old chapel, for Fr. Patrick O'Kane. FS laid 13 Mar 1868. Dedicated 30 Jun 1872. Name: THOMSON, MORTIMER H. Building: CO. DOWN, DOWNPATRICK, CHURCH OF ST PATRICK (RC) Date: 1892 Nature: Addition of tower and spire. Refs: Architect 47, 6 May 1892, suppl. p.13
Niall McAuley
In this Streetview you can see the castly bits on the porch are still there.
Niall McAuley
The building next door was a convent of the Sisters of Mercy until 2011.
Estuary Pig
It did help living in Downpatrick!
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] From discover Northern Ireland The foundation stone of this church was laid by Bishop Dorrian in 1886. The church and neighbouring convent of the Sisters of Mercy were built in Gothic Revival style. The church spire was added in 1895 This is way outside our accepted dates for the STP Collection??? The first date is probably transposed, 1886 rather than 1868 - see next Comment
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
From the Church website the dates are given as St. Patrick's Church was built on Mount St. Patrick in the years 1868 to 1872. History - St Patricks Church
derangedlemur
www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/ Well done! I am now, as per prediction, kicking myself. I've seen this church several times.
National Library of Ireland on The Commons
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thanks for trying, another day and you would have identified it within minutes. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Am I imagining it or is the spire on the building to the left different in the streetview versus the original?
oaktree_brian_1976
Boy, that's quite the spire they added. I've been to the Dungannon in Ontario, here in Canada. Nice to see the Irish version also :)
Niall McAuley
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Yes, I think the convent tower has been rebuilt in a simpler style.