Sailors of HMS King Edward VII…

Download this image

More from this collection

Related by Where

Research Help!

Where: Donegal, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1909

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
... at Rathmullan Pier on Lough Swilly in Co. Donegal. At least I think that's what it says on their caps, which I studied at close quarters with great diligence, all in the pursuit of knowledge and not because all the nice girls love a sailor('s cap)!

+++ UPDATE +++
We are ridiculously grateful to j.ward152 for the excellent information contributed below, 7 years after we posted this photograph! "The picture was taken on or about 16 August 1906. The ship's boats visible are from a number of ships, not just HMS King Edward VII. The boat immediately astern of the one in the left foreground has the name "Arrogant" on the backboard in the sternsheets. Another alongside the pier has some letters of a similarly positioned name which can only be "Majestic". From this the event captured can only be the brief visit by RN ships made in August 1906 – no other similar visit had these three ships included..." Have a look at the whole comment here!

Photographer: Almost certainly Robert French of Lawrence Photographic Studios, Dublin

Date: 16 August 1906

NLI Ref.: L_ROY_09301

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 74824
rathmullan pier loughswilly donegal ireland ulster sailors hmskingedwardvii navy britishnavy sails ships battleships arrogant boats uniforms children bollards crane gaslighting williamlawrence lawrencecollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland hmsarrogant wobblyeight lighters limerickbybeachcomber marinheiro barco uniforme grupo homens robertfrench august 1906 1900s hmsmajestic dateestablished 20thcentury

Add Tags
  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 07/Nov/2013 08:54:59

    HMS Edward VII sank after being struck by a mine off Cape Wrath in 1915 (or 1916)

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Nov/2013 08:59:23

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner Suitably named Cape then, John. One of the boats has ARROGANT at the stern and another has ...ENTIO...

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:00:35

    Lots of work done to the pier since: Streetview. GeoHive OS 25" link

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:01:48

    I think we're going to hear more about sandbars and dredging! :)

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:05:43

    HMS Arrogant, a cruiser.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:08:32

    I think *entio* is either Invention or Prevention. Edit: Maybe not entio, see below, maybe BUTIO, from RETRIBUTION

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:10:38

    Considering the announcement this week that shipbuilding at Portsmouth is to cease, this exchange from Hansard on 28 Jan 1902 concerning the building of HMS Edward VII seems paticularly topical

    MR. REGINALD LUCAS (Portsmouth) : I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty, whether he is able to give an assurance that, although the intention of building H.M.S. "Edward VII." at Portsmouth has been abandoned, there is no intention of forsaking the principle that new work should always proceed concurrently with repairs and refits, and that the establishment mentioned will not be solely occupied with the latter operations. *MR. ARNOLD-FORSTER : It is undesirable to give any pledge as to the nature or distribution of the work to be undertaken at any time in the Royal Dockyards, but there is no intention of confining the work at Portsmouth Dockyard to repairs and refits, to the exclusion of construction.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:23:34

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley So a time when King Edward VII, the Arrogant, and whatever the other one, for now known as *ENTIO*, were all in Lough Swilly together? But only if that combination of ships was noteworthy...

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:34:22

    Something big was going on - catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000317802/Image?lookfor=http:...

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:35:54

    The cruiser is probably a Drake class. They seem to have been based in Ireland before the war.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:37:33

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia When was the King Edward VII launched or enter service? There was a massive naval hoo hah in all Irish coastal waters (oooh, sound like the shipping forecast now) in 1904, though I thought this would be closer to 1910...

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:40:59

    There must be at least four ships as none of the three visible is the Arrogant. Two of them look like the King Edward. Maybe one of the other ships from the class is there as well. Africa and Commonwealth were both part of the atlantic fleet with the King Edward.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:41:26

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] She was commissioned in 1905 - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_King_Edward_VII

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:42:17

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland 1904. Commissioned in 1905, I think. Edit: completed in February 1905

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:48:42

    Arrogant commissioned 1898, recommissioned on 1 July 1911 as a depot ship.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:50:01

    I think *entio* may be a Destroyer called HMS Invention, but can't find anything definitive.

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:50:38

    Another W.L. photograph taken at the same time shows four cruisers and the HMS King Edward (twin funnels) off Rathmullen... www.nli.ie/glassplates/L_ROY/L_ROY_09299.jpg Lough Swilly later became one of the five treaty ports that Dev and Churchill got all huffy about.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:51:18

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Thank you, and how fantastic - "The Wobbly Eight"! For whereabouts so far, The King Edward VII was in Kingstown (Dun Laoghaire) in September 1906 (Irish Independent). And back in Kingstown again as part of the Second Battle Squadron under Vice-Admiral Sir George A. Callaghan, K.C.B., K.C.V.O. and Flag-Captain Allan F. Everett in July 1911 (Irish Independent). Plus lots on the scandalous supplying of a defect rudder (allegedly) by the Ayrshire Foundry Co.

  • profile

    John Spooner

    • 07/Nov/2013 09:59:10

    The London Times' column "Naval Intelligence" from 1907 to 1910-ish shows several visits of the Home Fleet and Channel Fleet to Lough Swilly. Unfortunately it doesn't always name the individual ships which took part. In 1909 (Jul 5) the report of naval manoeuvres mentions a Lough Swilly Fleet. Edit no wonder the report doesn't mention individual ships - the main division of "Red" fleet (one of 4 involved) had "40 large ships".

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:00:25

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Is the lighter from the Majestic, maybe?

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:07:36

    Arrogant could be one of the three-funnel ships at left of http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]'s L_ROY pic.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:15:43

    Fascinating red herring via Trove - a lovely letter written in March 1908 by a young Australian 'Bluejacket' on board HMS 'King Edward VII' in Bantry Bay, to his mother in Port Adelaide, South Australia. Not this occasion, but he does describe Admiral Lord Charles Beresford, "Charlie" and his fleet of twelve battleships, life on board, local people, colour etc - The Register, Adelaide SA, 23/4/1908 - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/56463824

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:17:15

    New theory: the lighter belongs to the HMS Retribution, an Apollo (or Aeolus) class cruiser (two funnels). Completed 1892, broken up 1911.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:19:19

    Retribution seems to have been in North America/West Indies in 1902-04.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:30:52

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia That is so lovely, thank you! Please keep these "red herrings" from Trove coming...

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:36:03

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley Could be - it'd be the second from right in the other picture, which would make it the one behind the sail in this picture and KE VII (I think I'll call it Kevin from now on) would be the one I've stuck a note on.

  • profile

    Frank Fullard

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:42:43

    This shows why Lough Swilly became a sore point subsequently. In that way this picture makes sense of old historical squabbles.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/Nov/2013 11:01:39

    More from Trove - Admiral Beresford (flagship HMS 'King Edward VII') "perhaps the most popular man in His Majesty's Navy", had a big farewell at Portsmouth in 1909 and "Rathmullen House, situated on the west side of Lough Swilly, county Donegal, has been rented by Lord Charles Beresford for the coming summer months." - The Queenslander, Brisbane, 15/5/1909 - final para - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/21826806

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/Nov/2013 11:22:46

    Sorry - way too tempting ...

    The HMS 'King Edward VII' Bluejacket's Limerick Dear Mother, Our ship's in Lough Swilly The weather's decidedly chilly. I've got a bad rash From Rum, Sodomy, and Lash - All the best, from your loving son, Willy xx

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Nov/2013 11:36:43

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia *Wild Applause*

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 11:44:03

    Rathmullan House on the GeoHive 25" OSI map.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 07/Nov/2013 12:05:02

    An idea - that yacht just off the jetty (see note and other photo) could be the 'Surprise' with Her Ladyship? Which would limit the date to before 1909. Hmmm??

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Nov/2013 13:30:52

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Re; ----ENTIC/O . Having searched all over the only ship that I can find that carried those letters was the SS Laurentic whose maiden voyage was from Liverpool to Quebec on 29th April 1909. The lifeboat with ENTIC above is the only one with fenders and not painted "battleship grey" which would suggest she's not navy. No sign of her in W.L's wide shots though!! "Shortly after sailing from the Royal Navy's base in Lough Swilly in County Donegal on 25th January 1917, SS Laurentic struck a mine laid off Fanad Head by U-80 and sank within an hour taking with her 354 men out of a crew of almost 470, and 43 tons of gold bullion." www.laurentic.com/history.aspx

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 07/Nov/2013 13:40:01

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Laurentic is a possibility. I'm not certain the letters are -ENTIC- or -ENTIO-. I think an oar is obscuring enough that the letters behind could be -BUTIO- in Retribution.

  • profile

    TEXASJOHN

    • 07/Nov/2013 14:03:42

    When this photo was taken, how much did Ireland contribute in man power to the Royal Navy?

  • profile

    Joefuz

    • 07/Nov/2013 16:35:45

    Rathmullan is where the Flight of the Earls took place. No help in dating the photo though! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Earls

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Nov/2013 16:37:18

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/joefuz They must have used seaplanes.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 08/Nov/2013 08:43:55

    Like [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]], I think the writing might be majESTIC. HMS 'Majestic' (1895-1915) was the flagship of the Home Fleet before HMS 'King Edward VII' - www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/H.M.S._Majestic_(1895) & en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Majestic_(1895) Two funnels side-by-side, if anyone can spot her.

  • profile

    sasit93

    • 17/Nov/2013 09:27:40

    Commendable for capturing the old moment.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 22/Aug/2015 10:34:39

    I have just added this photo to our 50,000+ Views Album (this is the 97th entry - it will not be long until we reach 100) https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/sets/72157651136879037

  • profile

    patrick.vickers1

    • 22/Aug/2015 17:15:38

    H.M.S. Arrogant, Second class cruiser, used as a depot ship from 1911. Sold in 1923.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 22/Aug/2015 23:32:50

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/patvic67] I thought you had managed to narrow the date with "1911", but alas 1911 was only a re-commissioning - see www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/H.M.S._Arrogant_(1896) via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley]'s link way above. There is something fascinating about this series of photos of the fleet at Lough Swilly, and I often look again at that wonderful letter from the Australian Bluejacket on board 'King Edward VII' - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/56463824

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 24/Aug/2015 04:22:39

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Nice letter.

  • profile

    Donegal County Museum

    • 06/Jan/2017 14:54:12

    Donegal County Museum On the 22nd of October 1914 the entire Grand Fleet of the British Navy sought a secure base from German U-boats in Lough Swilly, Co Donegal. Admiral Lord Jellicoe wrote “For the first time since the declaration of war the fleet occupied a secure base’. There were forty vessels in all including two divisions of destroyers, the first and second battle divisions, minesweepers, tankers, store and repair ships. Anti submarine booms were laid at the mouth of the Lough to protect the Fleet from the U-boat’s, which were menacing merchant ships along the Northwest coast. Sailors landed for routine marches and sports at Buncrana and Rathmullan These towns benefited financially from this presence. On the 27th October twenty miles off Tory Island the ‘Audacious’ Battleship sank when it struck a mine. Efforts to tow it to the Swilly failed and it was scuttled at sea. The loss of this new dreadnought was kept secret to prevent the Germans from discovering their success and ensure no loss of morale. On November 1st, Lord Admiral Jellico went ashore, probably to consult Admiralty officials and on his return two days later the entire fleet lifted anchor and departed. The departure was described as “long lines of warships filing through the narrows below the Fort, each ship illuminated in turn by searchlight”.

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 06/Jan/2017 21:08:57

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Fascinating stuff ! I did not think this photo could have been as late as 1914, and censorship of the British press would explain the lack of information. But news or speculation about HMS 'Audacious' filtered out via Canadian and American newspapers to Australia. The nearby White Star liner 'Olympic' rescued some of the sailors, and passengers took photos. See this article with photo via Trove of 17/4/1915 - trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/100571095 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Audacious_(1912) Nine minute documentary about the 'Audacious' sinking - youtu.be/BykpOH1esgQ

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 10/Jan/2017 23:25:42

    Thanks https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] - fascinating stuff indeed!

  • profile

    j.ward152

    • 11/Jan/2021 16:46:10

    The picture was taken on or about 16 August 1906. The ship's boats visible are from a number of ships, not just HMS King Edward VII. The boat immediately astern of the one in the left foreground has the name "Arrogant" on the backboard in the sternsheets. Another alongside the pier has some letters of a similarly positioned name which can only be "Majestic". From this the event captured can only be the brief visit by RN ships made in August 1906 - no other similar visit had these three ships included. You can see this reported in the Dublin Daily Express of 16 August 1906 pg 5 col 7. The other ships on this visit were: Amethyst, Diamond, Magnificient, New Zealand, Commonwealth, Drake, Berwick, Duke of Edinburgh and Cornwall. The boats visible are a cutter (left foreground) with 2 masts stepped (this was the standard rig for an RN cutter, a dipping lug on the foremast and a standing lug on the mizzen), an admiral's barge (right foreground with a rear admiral's flag painted on each side of the bow), a cutter with no masts stepped bearing the name "Arrogant". Behind them you can see the brailed-up gaff sail of a De Horsey rig - almost certainly carried by a pinnace (not the steam variety) - also somewhat visible is a steam pinnace, with another alongside but almost totally obscured. In later years (until the outbreak of war) the number of ships that visited every summer was reduced as the Royal Navy transferred more ships to the North Sea. Interesting to note that the boats crews are not complying with the rules - they are specifically banned from "lounging about" in boats whilst waiting at a quayside (see the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship of that era on this point).

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 12/Jan/2021 22:24:39

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] Thank you for that excellent information. I will draw the others attention to this when I post tomorrows image.