No. 2 Dredger...

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Where: Wexford, Ireland

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When: 01 January 1909

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... a-dredging in Courtown Harbour, Co. Wexford.

Photographer: Almost certainly Robert French of Lawrence Photographic Studios, Dublin

Date: Between circa 1906 and 1914

NLI Ref.: L_CAB_08581

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 48820
courtownharbour courtown wexford ireland leinster harbour quayside dredger no2 dredging boats rigging bucket caps steam funnels lifebelts crane chains conservatory ric royalirishconstabulary policeman constable williamlawrence lawrencecollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland limerickbybeachcomber maryville harbourhouse invernorehouse robertfrench

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  • profile

    O Mac

    • 04/Nov/2013 09:10:44

    Streetview

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 04/Nov/2013 09:12:22

    Imagine a career dredging No.2's !!

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    derangedlemur

    • 04/Nov/2013 09:14:36

    maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,720005,656123,7,9

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 04/Nov/2013 09:18:15

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia And a scatological Limerick by beachcomber will land in 3 - 2 - 1... :D

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 04/Nov/2013 09:25:56

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland Ha! I never realized that expression has its origins in rhyming slang. Today is not wasted!

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:01:50

    The Number Two Limericks There once was a man at low tide Who fell off a dredger and died. The next day his brother Fell off another - They lay interred side-by-side. Folk flocked to the dockside to view The dredger at work, Number Two. It would be a pleasure To find sunken treasure But shyte when it's only a shoe!

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:03:02

    Before 1904, I think. I can't see this water hydrant.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:30:06

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley I wouldn't doubt you, Niall. I had Circa 1905. Nudging back slightly to Circa 1900. Where should it be in the photograph?

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:31:47

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia Typo KLAXON! "Whe" fell off a dredger... Edit in aisle 3 please!

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:33:34

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Wheeps! Fixing ... [reminds me of an old Ronnie Barker sketch/skotch - youtu.be/_eTsns2DfDM]

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:38:39

    The harbour seems to be in need of constant dredging, or a sand bar blocks it.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:39:50

    Courtown Harbour. HC Deb 09 May 1904 vol 134 c763 763 § SIR THOMAS ESMONDE (Wexford, N.) I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will arrange with the Board of Works for the sending of their dredger as speedily as possible to dredge the entrance of Courtown Harbour, county Wexford. § MR. WYNDHAM There is not sufficient depth of water at Courtown Harbour to enable the suction dredger to be worked there. The other dredger is not at present available, as it will be required at Howth and Dunmore during the whole of the season.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:42:14

    Courtown Harbour. HC Deb 08 November 1906 vol 164 cc759-60 759 § SIR THOMAS ESMONDE I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he is aware that the fishermen at Courtown, county Wexford, have been unable to get to sea for some time past owing to the silting up of the harbour; if the dredger, promised on 22nd October last 760 by the Department of Agriculture, has been sent to Courtown; and whether, in view of the fact that for years past the fishermen at Courtown, and at other places on the south-east coast of Ireland, have been continually making representations to successive Governments with a view to the improvement of their harbours, he will seriously consider the question of giving them the same opportunities of earning their living as are given to fishermen in Scotland and in other parts of Ireland. MR. BRYCE The Department of Agriculture are aware that the larger boats at Courtown have recently been prevented from leaving the harbour, owing to the condition of the bar. A similar state of affairs existed at the end of the year 1904. The Department, in co-operation with the county council, then cleared the entrance by the use of a steam crane and grab working from the pier. On learning, on 22nd October, that the entrance to the harbour had again become choked, the Department took immediate steps to have the crane moved from Arklow to Courtown; and it is now being erected there. The greater number of harbours on the east coast are purely artificial, and are liable to become choked by accumulations of sand. The Department are now in possession of a sand pump dredger, which is available for use in harbours suitable to her capacities, and arrangements could be made for placing her at the disposal of such harbour authorities as are prepared to cooperate in providing for her expense.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 04/Nov/2013 10:47:55

    SNAP http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley!! From the Freeman's Journal of Tuesday, 10 May 1904: Questions asked in the House of Commons on Monday 9 May

    BOARD OF WORKS DREDGER In answer to Sir T. Esmonde, the Chief Secretary said there was not sufficient depth of water at Courtown Harbour to enable the suction dredger to be worked there. The other dredger of the Board of Works was not at present available, as it would be required at Howth and Dunmore during the whole of the season.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 04/Nov/2013 11:08:01

    This site has a useful history of Courtown Harbour and the dredging problems - from about half way down the page - " In July 1904 the Harbour was handed over to the Wexford County Council. " - www.courtownharbour.com/things-to-do/historic-stuff/histo...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 04/Nov/2013 14:55:43

    From further searching in newspapers, it looks as if the Dredging of Courtown Harbour issue ran and ran over a number of years between 1904 and 1913. Bearing in mind http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley's water pump too, anyone inspired to guesstimate a date?

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Nov/2013 15:20:45

    The responses above seem to suggest that Courtown was not getting a dredger in 1904, which suggests that the water hydrant was present for this photo but is not visible, while a shore based steam crane was used in 1904 and 1906. So I'd guess this is later than 1906...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 04/Nov/2013 16:23:20

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley 1906-1914 is very safe, I think, thank you.

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    O Mac

    • 04/Nov/2013 16:49:10

    The large conspicuous two story building behind the gated arch is not marked on the 25"OSI which would suggest photograph post 1910 !!

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Nov/2013 17:10:11

    OS 25" was surveyed in 1904.

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    O Mac

    • 04/Nov/2013 17:47:42

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] I sit corrected..... though I was informed by [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] in this discussion that the survey was done in 1910 and published 1913??? Just checked the OSI website and they date the 25 inch 1897-1913. I assume these are survey dates.

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    XPAT-Polska

    • 04/Nov/2013 19:42:57

    I love this having just got back from Wexford.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 04/Nov/2013 20:05:30

    Hi Owen, the different sheets have different survey dates, you can extract the info from the Search>Historic tab.

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    O Mac

    • 04/Nov/2013 20:32:07

    Thanks Niall, That's brilliant. 1/6/1904.......surveyed in a day. way to go. :)

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 04/Nov/2013 22:54:28

    Some red herrings from Trove - " ... and not least of these is the unexpected fact, that at Courtown Harbour, south of Dublin, the solar tide is actually greater than the lunar tide ! "This is," says Mr. Airy, "the only place on earth in which such a result has been distinctly obtained." " From 'Thoughts Upon Tides' (originally United Service Magazine, October 1845?) Sydney Morning Herald, 13/3/1846, near top of column 4 - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12885843 And 'Mitchell's Patent Screw-Piles' used to build a pier at Courtown Harbour in 1847, which was swept away in a January storm in 1867 - South Australian Register, 27/2/1855 - trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49310864

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    Robinson_Luzo

    • 06/Nov/2013 18:34:54

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland The Board had previous experience renting out said dredger and getting royally reamed for it being incapable of doing its work. In April/ May 1897 the Wicklow Harbour commissioners borrowed such a dredger from the Board of Works (at 35 pounds a week!) but found it did virtually nothing. The request to the Board of Works contained some strong language, some of the more polite of which stated it was "a waste of public money....she is practically useless". I'm curious about the whole dredging problem at Courtown. In 1897 at least the Wexford Harbour board had a dredger available to work (it was leased to Wicklow). Furthermore the Wicklow Harbour commissioners, who eventually purchased a dredger of the type suited to Courtown, were constantly trying to rent it out from 1901-1912, and attempting to sell it from 1907, yet there are no records of enquiries from Courtown as far as I'm aware.

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    ɹǝqɯoɔɥɔɐǝq

    • 06/Nov/2013 20:38:23

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] According to the local history (see link above) the harbour had its own dredger from 1859 -

    " ... The sand bar at the entrance was a constant problem. Various methods for dealing with it were devised. In 1859 a steam dredge was under consideration. In the same year a lighter was purchased. The sluice gates in the lock were originally designed to keep the entrance clear. These were enlarged in 1865 by James Pierce of Folly Mills Iron Works, Wexford. In 1861 a scheme to make a cut in the south pier was considered in order to clear sand from the pier. This idea was abandoned because a huge bank of gravel was thrown up against it by a storm the following year. Further loans, for repairs, were obtained from 1872 to 1904 totaling about £6,000. These loans were obtained by Lord Courtown mainly on the security of his lands. Altogether the harbour cost over £25,000 to build. During the years up to 1900 the income from the harbour just covered the running expenses. These included amongst other things the harbour masters' salary, the wages of the night watchman, the captain and crew of the dredger. Typical income and expenditure was as follows: - 1862 - Dues/storage - £238. Expenses £238. With this kind of balance sheet loans could not be paid off. ... " www.courtownharbour.com/things-to-do/historic-stuff/histo...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:45:54

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] £35 a week! I'm not surprised that there was a resort to "some strong language".

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    Robinson_Luzo

    • 08/Nov/2013 09:05:47

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland An estimate on the Wicklow Harbour Board's part gave the cost of the work, if they could go to the Board of Works for a proper dredger, as a third of that