Hat trick - Royal visitors in the Picture Gallery, Kilkenny Castle

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Where: Kilkenny Castle, The Parade, Collegepark, Kilkenny, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 20 April 1899

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
A royal group in Kilkenny Castle, that beautiful castle in, arguably, Ireland's most beautiful city - but can we name this lot?

And indeed it seems we can. With thanks in particular to some our regular stalwart contributors (and newer blood), we have confirmation that this does capture a royal visit to the Marble City. The man-who-would-be-king (the Duke of York) and family visited the Butler/Ormonde family at their home in Kilkenny Castle in April 1899. While perhaps already on the road to confirmation, DannyM8 helped confirm the sometimes elusive trifecta of who, where, and when. An extract from the Irish Times summarises this "at home" gathering in the castle's noted picture gallery, and lists those present as the:
- Duke & Duchess of York (later George V & Queen Mary)
- Marquess & Lady Ormonde (James Butler & Elizabeth Grosvenor)
- Two other Ormondes (likely the Marquess' daughter & brother)
- Marshal & Lady Roberts (Frederick Roberts & Nora Bews)
- Viscount & Viscountess De Vesci (John Vesey & Evelyn Charteris)
- Lady Eva Dugdale (later Lady of the Bedchamber)
- Earl of Ava (Hamilton-Temple-Blackwood d.1900)
- Sir Charles Leopold Cust (baronet)
- Sir Francis De Winton
- Mr J. T Seigne JP (officer of Ormonde's estate?)
- and "Mr Moncrieffe"

We even see forebears of both the visitors and the hosts in the portraits to the rear...

Photographer: A. H. Poole Studio Photographer

Collection: Poole Photographic Collection

Date: Thursday, 20 April 1899

NLI Ref: POOLEIMP 673

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 25746
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland royalgroup kilkennycastle kilkenny ireland city kingedward dukeofyork kinggeorgev queenmary princessmaryofteck muff limerickbybeachcomber ormonde jamesbutler butler earlofava roberts cust locationidentified poolephotographiccollection peopleidentified dateestablished leinster picturegallery marblecity duchessofyork georgev ormond marquessoformonde ladyormonde elizabethgrosvenor marshalroberts marshalfrederickroberts ladyroberts norabews devesci viscountdevesci viscountessdevesci johnvesey evelyncharteris ladyevadugdale ladyofthebedchamber hamiltontempleblackwood baronet sircharlesleopoldcust sirfrancisdewinton jtseigne thursday 20th april 1899 1890s nineteenthcentury

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  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 27/Oct/2016 08:10:38

    Rings a big bell ... [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/8594978004/]

  • profile

    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 27/Oct/2016 08:23:47

    Via [https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnspooner/]'s comment on the above photo ... "The "Prince of Wales" photo: it looks like the future Gerorge[sic] V, who became Prince of Wales in 1901. However, as Duke of York, he and the Duchess stayed at Kilkenny Castle from 19th to 24th April 1899 (Belfast News-letter)."

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    sharon.corbet

    • 27/Oct/2016 08:47:03

    Interestingly, the National Archives has an entry for a photo described as: "Photograph 11½ x 9½ group of fifteen figures including the Duke and Duchess of York (in centre) on the occasion of the Royal visit to Kilkenny Castle, six ladies and one gentleman seated, eight gentlemen standing, the Duke standing behind the Duchess seated, portraits in background." However, it also says "Copyright owner and author of work: August Nielsen, Rose Inn Street, Kilkenny. Form completed 5 May 1899.".

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    Niall McAuley

    • 27/Oct/2016 10:20:32

    Mary of Teck is wearing her Shamrock brooch again: Princess of Wales (Princess May).

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    john durrant

    • 27/Oct/2016 10:52:09

    2nd from the right front row doesn't look at all happy.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 27/Oct/2016 10:58:13

    That is the very same dress, too, same hairdo, earrings. I think that Poole copy I pasted in above is of an original from this visit.

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    guliolopez

    • 27/Oct/2016 11:34:20

    One imagines that Lady Elizabeth Harriet Grosvenor (lady of the house) is in there somewhere. Possibly seated at left hand of James Butler/Ormonde (man of the house). The unfortunately sullen looking younger lady further along could be either of their daughters: Beatrice Butler (1876–1952) or Constance Mary Butler (1879–1949). In general, if the "man of the house" is roughly centre of the picture, then the visiting family (York/Windsor) are to his right, and the host family (Butler/Ormonde) are to his left. There seems a difference in fashions (among the ladies at least) between hosts and visitors...

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 27/Oct/2016 11:55:49

    "... His official biographer, Harold Nicolson, later despaired of George's time as Duke of York, writing: "He may be all right as a young midshipman and a wise old king, but when he was Duke of York ... he did nothing at all but kill [i.e. shoot] animals and stick in stamps."... " From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V

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    DannyM8

    • 27/Oct/2016 12:47:32

    Irish Times - Timeline Thursday, April 20, 1899 - Duke and duchess left Vice Regal Lodge yesterday for a visit to Kilkenny Castle. Thursday, April 20, 1899 Arrived yesterday along with, Field Marshal Lord Roberts and Lady Roberts, Lady Eva Dugdale, Sir Charles Cust, The Earl of Ava and Sir Francis De Winton. There was an "At home" in the picture gallery. Present were - Duke, Duchess, 4 x Ormonds, 2 x Roberts, Viscount and Viscountess De Visci, Dugdale, Ava, Cust, De Winton, Mr J. T Seigne J.P. and Mr Moncrieffe. Friday, April 21, 1899 Yesterday morning the Duke along with Sir Francis De Winton and party visits Earl Warwick at Careysville by train. Saturday, April 22, 1899 Yesterday Duchess drove to Thomastown on the Nore. Including the Marquis his wife and the two daughters. They went by 3 barges to Inistioge to visit Lady Louisa Tighe at Woodstock (we came across her before). On Thursday the Duke caught a spring salmon on the Backwater. Monday, April 24, 1899 on Saturday the Duchess visited various places of interest in Kilkenny. With her were Marquis and wife, Viscountess De Vesci, Lady Eva Dugdale, The Earl of Ava and Mr Moncrieffe. After many visits they returned and dined in the Castle. The Duke returned from Careysville via Maryborough on the train. On Sunday Duke and Duchess attend church. Monday they leave the castle at 10 am en route to Kingstown. We came across field Marshal Roberts before [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/25136980491/in/photolist-EigAxn] could it be a younger him second from the left?

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 27/Oct/2016 13:04:07

    already tagged, but yes the portrait in the middle bottom is a young Queen Victoria. The portrait on the bottom left, man with the round collar, who is he?

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    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 27/Oct/2016 13:25:49

    10th Duke of Ormonde (1610-1688) at Kilkenny Castle - [corrected from 1st Dulke] attributed to Steven van der Meulen In the "cats" colours, naturally . . . ormonde onlinecollection.nationalgallery.ie/media/view/Objects/88...

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    dantheserene

    • 27/Oct/2016 13:46:53

    Is it actually cold enough to warrant a fur muff indoors in April, of is it a fashion thing?

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    DannyM8

    • 27/Oct/2016 14:20:02

    Lady Eva Dugdale is a Daughter of the 4th Earl of Warwick and a sister of the 5th Earl who was fishing with the Duke at Careysville (near Fermoy).

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    sharon.corbet

    • 27/Oct/2016 15:54:52

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] According to here that's also "Black Tom", Thomas Butler, 10th Earl of Ormond (1531-1614).

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    sharon.corbet

    • 27/Oct/2016 15:59:22

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] That can't be the 1st Duke and by Steven van der Meulen (died 1563/4).

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 27/Oct/2016 16:46:50

    Excellent! Thanks to everyone's contributions we can lose our inhibitions, and map this to the gallery in Kilkenny Castle :) We can also fairly confidently date this to April 1899. Per [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]]'s Irish Times snippet, it seems fairly certain that this is the image of the "at home" get-together on Thu 20 April 1899. That helps list (if not directly label) the likely subjects here. I will leave it a while (in case there are any other inputs), but it seems like we have the the "holy grail" trifecta of Date, Location and Subject. I will update the description later to try and capture a summary. Thanks again all!

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 27/Oct/2016 22:01:26

    The April in Kilkenny Limerick Kilkenny Castle was tough - The heating's off, sure enough. The ladies were freezing And coughing and wheezing - Thank God for their warm furry muff !

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 27/Oct/2016 23:13:48

    Excellent [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] - how we miss your poetic additions. (Though we may need to be careful of straying into "locker room talk" :) :) ) I've updated the description to capture today's inputs. Thanks all!

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 28/Oct/2016 00:58:13

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] thanks

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    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 28/Oct/2016 13:02:38

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] corrected to 10th. Thanks.

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    le cabri

    • 28/Oct/2016 13:14:52

    Marvelous job

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    HOMER's PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 28/Oct/2016 17:35:51

    Many thanks to all of you for this excellent exploitations on this rare historical image

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    Canadian Pacific

    • 22/Feb/2017 18:54:49

    Fascinating comments finding the people in the photo and their itinerary during the visit.