A distinguished gentleman in robes and chain of office sitting on a throne (of sorts)

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Where: 20 The Mall, Waterford, Ireland

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When: Unknown

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This fine Poole portrait portraying probably the Lord Mayor of a city to end this week. The robes and chain are very ornate and he is seated on a very finely carved chair - but who is he and what was the office he held?

Today's contributors, including sharon.corbet, Niall McAuley and guliolopez spotted the coat or arms, motto and regalia as those of Waterford - so clearly this is a Waterford mayor. Given that the catalogue date of the image was 1927, it was originally thought that maybe this was John J. Wyley - who was mayor that year. However, various clues didn't support that suggestion (not least the age of the man, the name of the person who comissioned the photo, and a "copy" label in the catalogue entry). There is therefore much stronger evidence that the mayor pictured is Henry Grainger, who was mayor in 1898. It seems likely a family member (probably a daughter) commissioned a copy from the Poole studio during the 1920s....


Photographer: A. H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford

Date: c.3 September 1927 (likely date earlier photo was copied. Original may date to c.1898)

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 3458

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 8588
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland gentleman chainofoffice robes fur chair throne portrait mayor waterford regalia coatofarms urbsintactamanetwaterfordia motto lions wyley grainger henrygrainger poolephotographiccollection

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  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 30/Sep/2016 07:54:19

    I think we have seen that chain on Mayors of Waterford before...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 30/Sep/2016 07:57:42

    Here is a different Mayor of Waterford wearing it: catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000591753 And here: catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000036845/Image?lookfor=http:...

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    guliolopez

    • 30/Sep/2016 08:10:18

    One year later, and one mayor later. The previous image (below) is Edward Walsh (Mayor 1928-29). www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6061514031/ Which would likely make this portrait image John Wyley (Mayor 1926-27). At least according to Wikipedia and the NLI catalogue.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 30/Sep/2016 08:12:20

    It also says "Waterford" above his head... (As part of the coat of arms and motto of Waterford City: "Urbs Intacta Manet Waterfordia")

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    Niall McAuley

    • 30/Sep/2016 08:16:06

    wikipedia has a list, and suggests that in 1926 and 1927 the Mayor was John J. Wyley

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    Niall McAuley

    • 30/Sep/2016 08:19:53

    There's a pic in the archive called Alderman John J. Wyley, Mayor of Wateford, 1926-1927, but it is not digitized: catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000693352

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    Niall McAuley

    • 30/Sep/2016 08:23:19

    In 1894, a John Wyley, grocer etc. was in business on Michael St waterford according to the Lennon Wylie site.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 30/Sep/2016 08:29:04

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Looking at the censuses, John Wyley of Michael St (60 in 1901) was dead by 1911. But his son, John J. was only 19 in 1911 making him 35ish in 1927.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 30/Sep/2016 08:44:01

    On the chair - the arms on the back (with Lion and Unicorn Fish?) are on the chain of office, too. The motto is the same today, Urbs Intacta manet Waterfordia. The cities arms have been simplified since, leaving out the Lions, and reverting to just the three ships, apparently an older form.

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    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 30/Sep/2016 08:50:08

    Was a chap named Harold McMillan ever on the Waterford Council? media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/8165/9616809_1.jpg?v=8CCE2C6...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 30/Sep/2016 09:17:40

    So, is this guy 35 and prematurely grey, or is the date wrong (in which case this is some other mayor). I see a few other shots commissioned by Miss Grainger dated 1894, 1900 direction... If a Mary with access to the physical archive could take a look at POOLEK 4746, a pic of Wyley as mayor, that would be great! {Edit - per notes below, I now think that this will not match Wyley, and it is the earlier Grainger).

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    sharon.corbet

    • 30/Sep/2016 09:39:46

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] There was a Mayor Henry Grainger in 1898, who may be a relation of Miss Grainger. Possibly this was a copy made in 1927. ETA: Looking again at the Catalogue Entry, I found "Note in Poole Index Book: 'Copy'" under the notes section.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 30/Sep/2016 11:01:20

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Aha! that's interesting. here is Henry Grainger, Alderman of Waterford Corporation and Draper, 60 in 1901. So 58 in 1898 - seems like a better match. Miss Grainger would then be Catheline, Hannah, Molly/Mary or perhaps Ellia, depending on whether she ordered the original or the copy.

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    guliolopez

    • 30/Sep/2016 11:03:27

    As per [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] and [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]], I'm beginning to doubt this is Wyley also. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]]'s Grainger theory seems all the more likely. One fairly firm clue to me is the chain of office. With each new office holder, a link was added to the chain. Normally with the arms of the new office holder. The chain worn here is much much shorter (fewer links) than the one we see in the 1928 image. Below. This (and the "copy" note, and the "Grainger" connection, and the seeming age mismatch) would all point towards a 1927 copy of an older image/earlier mayor... www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6061514031/

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 30/Sep/2016 23:14:27

    Excellent stuff. Incredible deductive powers on display again today. Have updated the description and mapped it to Waterford city hall (Indubitably!)

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    DannyM8

    • 01/Oct/2016 07:59:11

    Henry Grainger, Obituary in the Irish times 21st Nov 1911, he died in Tramore he was a Draper in Barronstrand Street for many years.

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    O Mac

    • 01/Oct/2016 08:48:10

    Buena serie de fotos antiguas