The peacemakers: George Gavan Duffy, Erskine Childers, Robert Barton and Arthur Griffith in a group

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Where: Unknown

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 December 1921

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
From buildings, monuments and bridges to bridge builders today. Some of the negotiating team sent to London to broker peace with the British Government. That date looks all wrong?

The date was indeed wrong! Arthur Griffith had passed away by the stated date (9 December 1922). Late in the day Niall McAuley seems to have solved the problem by linking us to the a site which states that the correct date is December 1921. The photo was more than likely taken during the return trip from London - after signing the Anglo Irish Treaty on 6 December 1921.

Thank you for all the contributions.


Photographer: W. D. Hogan

Collection: Hogan Wilson Collection

Date: December 1921

NLI Ref.: HOG3

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 17696
hoganwilsoncollection wdhogan nationallibraryofireland georgegavanduffy erskinechilders robertbarton arthurgriffith treaty dublin 09thdecember1921

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  • profile

    O Mac

    • 25/Jul/2016 07:28:24

    Negotiations closed by the signing of the treaty at 2:20am on the 6th December 1921

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    CASSIDY PHOTOGRAPHY

    • 25/Jul/2016 07:50:21

    Seoirse Gabhán Ó Dubhthaigh; 21 October 1882 – 10 June 1951 Hmmm, appears to be early to mid 40s. Also of import to consider, President of Dail Eireann, Arthur Griffith died, 12 August 1922. The date of the photo is improbable, based on that. God bless Ireland. Brexit may offer the best opportunity for reunification with the northern six counties.

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    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 25/Jul/2016 08:54:12

    The window frames and those overhead "protuberances" are suggestive of a ship setting. Perhaps the mail boat departing or arriving.

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    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 25/Jul/2016 08:56:10

    The policemans helmet may betray which side of the pond.

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    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 25/Jul/2016 09:03:42

    On mature reflection, I'm now inclined towards a railway setting. Didn't they directly board a train on arrival home at Carlisle Pier?

  • profile

    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 25/Jul/2016 09:37:49

    Here they are arriving home in December 1921 [catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000355607] Sce: HOGW 78

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 25/Jul/2016 09:38:34

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] They're standing beside a train, alright.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 25/Jul/2016 10:51:32

    An image search finds this shot at irishistory.blogspot.co.uk dated 9th December 1921.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 25/Jul/2016 19:30:59

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/9038595213/stats/] What a shame Clery's is no more. A big loss to the City of Dublin. All that aside this is another personal favorite which I have adding it to our 100,000+ views album, our 16th entry. Check out our most viewed photos below. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/sets/72157651599255125]

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 25/Jul/2016 23:31:52

    Judging by the policeman's helmet I would say this was taken in London, most likely at Euston Station. The policeman is definitely not D.M.P. or R.I.C.. Some footage of the delegation arriving in London www.britishpathe.com/video/irish-peace-congress-and-deleg...

  • profile

    artland

    • 26/Jul/2016 12:02:15

    Congratulations! This is a wonderful shot! You are invited to post it to: artland

  • profile

    le cabri

    • 26/Jul/2016 14:04:19

    Great one

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    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 31/Jul/2016 11:56:09

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] That looks like DMP to me. Those helmets out-lived Independence.

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    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 31/Jul/2016 12:01:43

    "In 1922 the Royal Irish Constabulary was disbanded and the Civic Guard was established. The Civic Guard was later renamed the Garda Síochána and in 1925 the Dublin Metropolitan Police merged with the new police force." [www.policehistory.com/garda.html]

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    ofarrl

    • 31/Jul/2016 16:48:54

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] The police helmet above looks like it has a Brunswick Star on the helmet plate, something that was not used in the D.M.P. or R.I.C. emblems. Also the D.M.P. helmets had very distinctive white metal or silver trim with a ball tipped spike on top. You can see some later post independence examples here Irish Hospital Sweepstakes 1931

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 31/Jul/2016 20:36:26

    The delegation arrived back in Dublin on Thursday morning 8th of December, so the photo above was taken either on the evening of the 7th or the morning of the 8th.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 31/Jul/2016 21:49:14

    Thanks all - For now I've vagueified* the date somewhat (to December 1921). I'm not yet brave enough to map the photo to a UK train station though :) (* Yes it's a word. Or, at least, I'm sure I saw it in at least one book here at Library Towers....)

  • profile

    Dr. Ilia

    • 03/Aug/2016 08:00:22

    Intriguing

  • profile

    Dún Laoghaire Micheál

    • 07/Aug/2016 14:42:25

    Heres another example - from UCD digital Archive - "Photographs of crowd scenes in College Green, being controlled by police as Sean Lemass and Frank Aiken pass through the streets." It also purports to be 1931 (same Sweepstake gig?) but whatever the year, the extended silver "topping" on the helmets is obvious. That and the night time scene means I defer to Paul O'Farrell's admirable analysis on this. [digital.ucd.ie/view-media/ivrla:31214/multi#a6db03e7-7499...] (apologies - havent figured out in-line photos yet)

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    emden09

    • 20/Aug/2016 20:30:30

    Moonlighting1bquot; width=From a fan of Moonlighting