Horses, hairdos and hats (aka "the real McCoy")

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Where: Saint Grellian, John's Hill, Waterford, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1901

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Staying with Poole for the last shot of the week we have a Mr McCoy and his family with pony and horse. In this instance the fabulous hat is on the baby rather than on the mother but what a hat it is. We especially love the basket saddle(?) for the baby...

The background to this image was a little challenging at times to identify - making it all the sweeter however when several moments of inspiration from sharon.corbet made for a fairly firm theory on the subjects, location and date of this image. The comments for this one will make for interesting reading on the investigative process involved, but - in short - there is firm consensus that the "real McCoy" here is Archibald S McCoy (solicitor), with his wife Mary Helen, and baby also named Mary Helen. The "John Shiel" mentioned in the catalogue notes is established to be in fact "John's Hill", where the family were living at the time of the photo. The date (established by location and most importantly age of the infant) is likely c.1901 - when the family were living in a house very much like this one (and likely this particular one given similarities) during the 1901 census.

Massive kudos and thanks are due to all who contributed - but in particular to sharon....


Photographer: A. H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford

Date: Likely c.1901

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 1175a

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 18076
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland mrmccoy familygroup hat baby basket saddle horses limerickbybeachcomber therealmccoy mccoy archibaldmccoy archibaldsmccoy maryhelenmccoy johnsheiljohnshill johnshill waterford saintgrellans horse locationidentified poolephotographiccollection

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    Wendy:

    • 29/Jul/2016 07:52:45

    how fabulous!

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    swordscookie back and trying to catch up!

    • 29/Jul/2016 08:00:02

    Well groomed people, Well groomed horses, Well groomed house??? Lovely portrait and the horses focus is every bit as good as the humans!

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    sharon.corbet

    • 29/Jul/2016 08:01:37

    A couple of theories as to who these could be.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 29/Jul/2016 09:45:47

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Pretty weak stuff there. How about the household of John McCoy, Harness maker in Oilgate? (house probably too small, family not posh enough).

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    O Mac

    • 29/Jul/2016 14:56:41

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] The RN man, James Abernethy McCoy mentioned in that article bears a remarkable resemblance to the man above. If it is John/James McCoy and the baby above is his first born then it's James Abernethy born 17 Jun 1900 ----- 9 months at 1901 Census time. They lived somewhere in the townland of Kilmurry Co Kilkenny in 1901... www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/28345398160/in/datepos...

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    Andy Gant

    • 30/Jul/2016 06:53:53

    Great image, seen in "B&W Images from around the World" www.flickr.com/groups/picsinbw/

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 31/Jul/2016 23:10:31

    I'm inclined to agree with [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] that the McCoy's of Rathpatrick (Kilkenny - close to the famous Mr Duffin's house) seem to be the only fancy enough and local enough candidates in the 1901 census. There are also however the McCoys of Grange (Waterford) in the 1911 census. Also a solicitor living in a "class 1" house with 22 windows no less. Perhaps finding the house might help us determine between the candidates(??)

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    sharon.corbet

    • 01/Aug/2016 00:33:47

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Archibald McCoy was James Abernathy's older brother. (See p. 98). They both worked at what's now Dobbyn and McCoy. Archibald lived at Leoville House.

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 01/Aug/2016 07:49:08

    There are not that many suitable houses in Kilmurry. I am liking Laurelhill House on the OS map, but I can't find a pic.

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    sharon.corbet

    • 01/Aug/2016 10:33:53

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] That's over the border in Ballinvoher. I'm beginning to think now that it is Archibald McCoy. In 1901 he was living in John's Hill", and this looks similar to the house.

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    FlâneurFloyd

    • 01/Aug/2016 14:36:18

    Love those old glass negatives, the detail and sense of dimensionality they capture is amazing.

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    O Mac

    • 01/Aug/2016 18:11:10

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] I think you're right about it being Archibald and that house you found certainly looks like the location. I also think the woman looks pregnant which would rule out the brother James and his wife as it was three years before they had their next child. Archibald and his wife, Mary Helen, had another daughter, Irene Emily, within a year of their first born, also named Mary Helen. It could be possible that John Shiel was Archibald's father or another brother who commissioned Poole??. maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,661044,611434,12,9

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    sharon.corbet

    • 01/Aug/2016 18:34:38

    A slightly belated realisation that this also explains the John Shiel bit - it should of course be Mr. McCoy, John's Hill...

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    O Mac

    • 01/Aug/2016 19:09:10

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] V good :)

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 01/Aug/2016 21:38:13

    The Mr Poole Photographer of Waterford Limerick There once was a man and a boy*, With his wife, pony, horse, Pride and Joy. Dear Mr Poole Was nobody's fool, But who was the real McCoy ?!
    * - Oops!

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 01/Aug/2016 23:47:49

    By jove, I think [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] has got it! "John Shiel / McCoy" = "John's Hill / McCoy". Seems eminently plausible. It would also explain why we couldn't find any other mentions of "John Shiel" (or indeed John McCoy) in Poole's usual stomping grounds. The frontage of that John's Hill property seems to copper fasten it for me. Any other thoughts? Before we ring the bells and klaxons (and perhaps contact Aoife O’Connor about it :) )....

  • profile

    swordscookie back and trying to catch up!

    • 02/Aug/2016 07:47:16

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] Well done the Beachcomber, that is one of your best yet and reading Evening Mary's post below your Limerick we may now know who the "real McCoy" is?????

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    Niall McAuley

    • 02/Aug/2016 08:45:07

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Very good, Sharon! I think we have Archibald and family in the census and at that address! Well done! Archibald's daughter Mary Helen was 9 months at the 1901 census - we are very close to that date - 31st March 1901.

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    swordscookie back and trying to catch up!

    • 02/Aug/2016 17:43:34

    By the 1911 Census the McCoy's are out in the country in "house No. 2 Grange Upper and the family had increased. Mary Helen Jnr and Irene Emily had been joined by Florence Eleanor aged 7 and Charles James aged 5 in 1911! In "Heritage" Archibald's profession is given as "Solicitor" so it may have been that he had succeeded and was moving upwards/

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 02/Aug/2016 22:03:23

    Great stuff all - and especially [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]]. I am delighted to ring not only the "location identified" klaxon on this one, but the "subject identified" bell as well. It's always extra satisfying to have the location/subject/date trifecta (which it seems we largely have here). Amazing work indeed - especially the left-brained "John Shiel = John's Hill" recognition (which really seals it IMO). It is for contributions like this that really highlight the best of this project for this particular Mary. Massive kudos and thanks to all! (Date, description and location all updated)