R.I.C. group with County Inspector Hetreed

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Where: 13 Catherine St, Waterford, Ireland

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 14 November 1917

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
A large group of RIC officers and men from the Poole Collection. In the years that followed this image, many of these men may have found their world come tumbling down around them. Some perhaps lost their lives in the struggle that was to come, while others will have lost or left their jobs, their homes and their colleagues.

Today's contributors provide some extra insight and context on those pictured, in particular on the Inspector Hetreed mentioned. Ofarrl links us to the census entry showing the inspector living with his family close-by on Waterford's South Parade, and an extract from Fergus Campbell's book. Guliolopez provides evidence that the image was taken to mark the retirement of the inspector on 14 November 1917.


Photographer: A. H. Poole

Collection: Poole Photographic Studio, Waterford

Date: Wednesday 14 November 1917

NLI Ref: POOLEWP 2736

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 13132
ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland dog photobomb waterford ric royalirishconstabulary moustasches uniforms police countyinspectorhetreed williamcharlespatrickhetreed wcphetreed royalirishconstabularycavalry courthouse waterfordcourthouse carbines retirement hetreed 1917 poolephotographiccollection

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  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 12/May/2016 06:15:05

    What was the height requirement for the RIC? The carbines look pretty puny in their massive paws, especially the three NCOs on the right.

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    derangedlemur

    • 12/May/2016 08:29:32

    In the following shot (catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000593246) you can see the noticeboard on the left. It's not legible, even with a fair bit of faffing about, so I don't know why it's been obscured in this photo. Maybe the original negative is quite large and it says something defamatory.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 12/May/2016 08:44:10

    Mr Poole also scratched out the lad in the flat cap - back row fourth from right. He looks like he was up to no good. A 99-year-old photobomb! [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia/26361478724/]from catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000593246

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 12/May/2016 09:38:39

    And those without moustaches were sent to the back....

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    ofarrl

    • 12/May/2016 12:42:22

    Nice group photo, this one was taken at the back of the court house in Catherine Street, Waterford. I wonder what the occasion was? Presumably thats Inspector Hetreed seated in the centre front with two head constables seated to his left. W.P.C. Hetreed lived close by at South Parade, Waterford, here's the census return for the family www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Water...

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 12/May/2016 12:48:32

    This would be a fine shot in colour.

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    guliolopez

    • 12/May/2016 13:05:46

    The uniform variant of the guy on the far right (different hat, boots, shoulder/Sam Browne belt, and rapier), does that simply indicate he's a mounted officer? Given that the collar badges/numbers are so obvious, one imagines that (with the help of RIC roll/records), someone could actually put more than a few names on these faces....

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 12/May/2016 13:36:48

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] yes the sergeant at the right is a member of the R.I.C. mounted division. Not sure if the collar numbers are any help, my understanding is that most of the associated records were destroyed during the civil war. R.I.C. mounted troopers at Waterford possibly at Lady Lane barracks. Fergus Campbell in his book, The Irish Establishment 1879-1914, states that "William Charles Patrick Hetreed was a native of Kent who became a cadet after working as a tutor at Saint Brendan's College, Killarny, and at Clongowes Wood college for almost 3 years. William later wrote an article for the Clongownian encouraging students at Clongowes to consider becoming cadets in the Royal Irish Constabulary."

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    Inverarra

    • 12/May/2016 15:04:43

    A fine body of men. (and a dog)

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    Carol Maddock

    • 12/May/2016 15:22:51

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] Just heard it's National Limerick Day (in the US, but we're not proud) and obviously thought of you! Thanks for all the limericksbybeachcomber... From an article in an American newspaper in 1877 is a story about a politician recommended to read Edward Lear by his doctor. The politician has never heard of Lear, and the doctor says: "Sir", said the physician, "I am amazed at your question. Edward Lear, sir, is the biographer of 'that globular man of Hust', of 'that uneasy old man of the West', of 'that courageous young lady of Norway', 'of that morbid old man of Vesuvius', and others of like distinction".

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    ofarrl

    • 12/May/2016 16:55:34

    I'm not a hundred percent certain, but the sergeant seated second from the left could be my great grandfather Michael Farrell, he was a sergeant in Waterford around this time.

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    Foxglove

    • 12/May/2016 18:39:46

    moustache a go go!

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    guliolopez

    • 12/May/2016 21:27:00

    Thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] for confirmation of mounted trooper. We also had ancestors in the RIC. Although, with consideration to the policy of posting them some distance for their original home-place, I don't expect any are pictured here. As regards the inspector himself, I found this short ("pithy") note in the Irish Independent from 15 November 1917, confirming his retirement. So, seems pretty clear that this image was commissioned to mark his departure. www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/26703595310/ EDIT. I found an even better reference in the Munster Express from the following Saturday. It specifically mentions the Poole shoot - and maybe a little hint as to why the mounted trooper was invited (he may have been needed for his horse :) ) www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/26977442235/

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 12/May/2016 21:29:45

    Thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] - certainly would be great if he was in this collection of fine moustaches :} It's interesting to compare the men, uniforms and facial hair fashions (rules?) to this Civic Guard (Garda) group from the exact same spot and collection, which followed five years later: www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/6225681279/ Description, tags, etc all updated to attempt to reflect today's contributions...

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 12/May/2016 21:57:03

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/] great find thanks for posting. I'm pretty certain the sergeant I mentioned above is my great grandfather. Photo on the left below was taken sometime in the 1940's I believe. He was promoted to head constable in 1920 and transferred to Oughterard in County Galway. Michael Farrell

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 12/May/2016 22:07:46

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] So I googled "that globular man of Hust" to find the original - [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia/26909019641/] From a wonderful 1862 collection with scary illustrations (the other characters are there too) - www.bencourtney.com/ebooks/lear/index1.html

  • profile

    guliolopez

    • 12/May/2016 22:20:31

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] There's certainly a resemblance there alright - given that the Munster Express implies that RIC men from all around the city and county were present, it seems a reasonable bet that he was there. In searching the papers around that time, I didn't find anything that named the non-officers present. The Munster Express entry listing covering the most names/descriptors (mentioning Hetreed, his replacement Maxwell and "sergeants and men"). In my hunt I found that the Hetreed family were well photographed by the Poole studio in that year. Several papers carried Poole photos alongside the "society" engagement and wedding announcements of his eldest daughter into another "society" family. See Cork Examiner example, in which we find at least one of those mentioned in the census entry you had linked... www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/26373621593/

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    Niall McAuley

    • 13/May/2016 06:24:41

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Those Poole Hetreed/Skinner photos are not digitized, but they are in the nli archive

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    Carol Maddock

    • 13/May/2016 08:06:20

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] They're not a patch on yours (though far cleaner)!

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    Peter Mc

    • 13/May/2016 12:01:40

    That is District Inspector George Maxwell (seated left, with dog) and to his right County Inspector Hetreed. Next to Hetreed are the two Head Constables based in the City, James McKay and William McGurk. The Mounted Sergeant (far right, standing) is John Harte, of the Lady Lane station

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 13/May/2016 22:12:34

    Great to know, thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/traphill]! (If you were able to tell us how you know, that would also help with any sourcing updates we might make in the future :) )

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    Peter Mc

    • 14/May/2016 19:31:57

    Officers names and their stations are listed in the RIC Lists and Directories (July 1917, January 1918). HO 184/58 and HO 184/59 gives the Nominal Returns of men for each County listing their names and stations. HO 184/20-29 will give the individual service records for each man, showing when they were allocated to, and left, each county. :)

  • profile

    mikescottnz

    • 16/May/2016 07:26:17

    Great photo and researches.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 16/May/2016 13:59:02

    Brilliant - Thanks [https://www.flickr.com/photos/traphill] - Fantastic to have the confirmation!

  • profile

    MichaelMusgrove

    • 08/Oct/2016 00:57:07

    Non-moustachioed need not apply.