Queen Victoria and others

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Where: 113-119 R138, Dublin, Ireland

When: 04 April 1900

Queen Victoria in carriage with others, at Grafton Street, Dublin.

Only last week I was watching a BBC show presented by Michael Portillo where he shares items from the British national archive. In this particular show he was focusing on assassination attempts on Queen Victoria (there were a few). My point, I hear you say - The burly gent in the rear of the carriage, I saw him a few times in the clips selected by Mr Portillo, I am fully expecting his name and vital statistics!!

OwenMacC identified the two ladies (other than Queen Victoria) in the carriage, they are the Queens daughters, Princess Christian and Princess Beatrice. This was on the occasion of Queen Victoria's last visit to Ireland it was one of her last ceremonious public appearances as she was to pass away the following year.

Owen also identified the date as shown below.

I knew we would get the names of the two Highland Gillies after extensive work OwenMacC identified the men as William Brown (right) and C. Thomson. William Brown was a nephew of the infamous John Brown who was closely connected to the Queen. People Identified Klaxon on full volume!!

Photographer: Thomas H. Mason

Collection: The Mason Photographic Collection

Date: 4th April 1900

NLI Ref: M57/1

You can also view this image, and many thousands of others, on the NLI’s catalogue at catalogue.nli.ie

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 18743
queenvictoria graftonstreet dublin leinster ireland flags people cigars tophats cheering streetdecorations crowds carriage horsemen soldiers thomasholmesmason thomasmayne thomashmasonsonslimited lanternslides nationallibraryofireland bowlerhats easonsons princesschristianofschleswigholstein princesshenryofbattenberg princesschristian princessbeatrice highlandgillies highlandghillies royalyacht 4thapril1900 phoenixpark kingstown dunlaoghaire footmen scarletcladfootmen queenvictoriavisittodublin1900 foxco williambrown cthomson johnbrowm dateestablished peopleidentified

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  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 00:04:48

    The two lads are probably footmen as they are not actually in the 'cart' proper. The same lads are seen in the newsreal below at 1min 30secs in looking stiff as bricks. The other two women are the Queens daughters, Princess Christian and Princess Beatrice. Mason's photograph was most likely taken on the way to the Phoenix Park from Kingstown(DunLaoghaire) on the 4th April 1900.....around midday.... as cortege reached Viceregal lodge at 2pm. www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q9gwn...

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 02:47:06

    Detailed account of the Royal visit in Michael J. McCarthys book , "Five Years in Ireland, 1895-1900" (1901). www.ricorso.net/rx/az-data/authors/Mc/McCarthy_MJF/xtra.h...

  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 07/Apr/2015 06:15:18

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] They've got medals. Do you not think they'd be genuine soldiers?

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Apr/2015 07:01:15

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Which end of Grafton Street would you say? (for my map) I am inclined to go with the medals argument, I still say we will have their names before the day is out. For a while I thought the big man might be John Brown but it is not him.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Apr/2015 07:53:49

    In this photo of Brown he is wearing the same (very similar) uniform as our men in the Carriage. Click Here

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 07/Apr/2015 08:33:51

    All your bunting requirements catered for, from our friends at Eason & Sons. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16876827950/]

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 07/Apr/2015 08:54:43

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Brown died in 1883.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Apr/2015 09:09:54

    I have added a new album for your enjoyment. The album is made up of some of our least loved photos from the earlier days of the stream, The common denominator is that they have less than 5 comments each. I have started with a batch of 12 items and will add more if there is enough activity. Have fun. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/sets/72157651352773330/]

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 09:10:06

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] "Footmen" in so far as they looked after the carriage, put up the rain hood etc and soldiers too, as bodyguards. Not everyone welcomed her to Ireland and there had been numerous attempts on her life. www.queenvictoriaonline.com/Assassination-Attempts-on-Que... Re: Grafton St? Looks like the College Green end, opposite Trinity that being James Fox's cigar shop behind---note angle of tracks to that of buildings. Trams did'nt run up/down Grafton St. proper. maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,715909,734053,7,9

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Apr/2015 09:28:11

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Map updated, thanks.

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 07/Apr/2015 10:03:00

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Owen in this extract from the IT from the following morning, our two men are described as Highland Gillies!! [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16878734289/] In the same article they refer to her two daughters as Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein and Princess Henry of Battenberg.

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 10:23:30

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] V good...and "scarlet-clad footmen" : ) Princess henry of B. and Princess Beatrice were one and the same... royalcentral.co.uk/blogs/history/princess-beatrice-prince...

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Apr/2015 11:38:06

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerryward] Hello Gerry, thanks for the Streetview.

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 07/Apr/2015 13:41:09

    Princess Christian of Scheswig-Holstein was originally Princess Helena too. (It's not a typo for Christina). Apparently the planning for this trip was quite involved - it included managing to misplace the Royal Yacht, and building a special gangway in Kingstown (now Dun Laoghaire) - "The gangplank had to be level so that Her Majesty would not have to walk up a slope. They built a special plank to take cognisance of the tides and that cost a lot of money."

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Apr/2015 14:29:36

    I have just added this photo [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/11943807004/] to the 50,000+ Views Album [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/sets/72157651136879037/]

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 14:33:38

    At Kingstown....Townhall and station in background www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/16859656867/

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 14:46:24

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Can you find this typo in the IT?? " The Irish Times on the occasion of Queen Victoria’s last visit to Ireland in 1900 when it reported that “a large crowd cheered as Queen Victoria pissed over Carlisle Bridge.” Even though they had only got one letter wrong the entire Type room staff were sacked. " www.skibbereeneagle.ie/uncategorized/queen-vic-in-ireland/

  • profile

    DannyM8

    • 07/Apr/2015 14:57:22

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Owen, no mention in the archive other than this letter to the editor in 2002 citing the Evening Mail as the culprits. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/17066521811/]

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 15:56:57

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Thanks for looking Danny.... Subtle!!

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 07/Apr/2015 15:57:23

    I'm not any further with names for Highlanders, but I'm fairly sure that the carriage they're riding in is a landau. There is also postilion rather than a coachman, as can be seen more clearly in [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]'s picture from Kingstown above.

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 20:07:47

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] A 'pastillion' rode one of the foremost carriage horses while footman/footmen sat or stood at the back of the carriage. A footman was so called as he used to run alongside removing obstacles, opening gates etc. The coachman held the reins. You're right, it is a Landau carriage in the picture.

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 07/Apr/2015 22:48:38

    Do you think these two were one and the same man... a William Brown, brother of the infamous John Brown and personal servant to Queen Victoria. They both have a similar demeanour... !! and similar hairline? Photographs taken 2 years apart............I'm 100% sure www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/17070091192/ From: --- and Click the + www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/search#/243/collect...

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 08/Apr/2015 00:12:40

    AND......This might well be your other man... A Mr.C Thomson(sic), Also from Balmoral, a gillie and a footman. While taken 35years earlier, I've convinced myself there is a strong resemblance. Similar fuzz, and besides both having eyes, mouths and noses : ) both have similar round faces, chins, and VERY similar hairlines. Ages? -- Young guy 17ish?-- would make our guy 52ish? ..looks about so!... I'm 99% sure its him. www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/17071193241/ From ---and Click the + www.royalcollection.org.uk/collection/search#/477/collect... Thanking [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] for the Irish Times Highland Gillie clue.....It doesn't make sense that the Highland Gillies you mentioned would have come from anywhere but the Balmoral Estate...with it's 50.000acres.

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 08/Apr/2015 03:16:38

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Brilliant Find! I think you are right about William Brown, however, he was John Brown's nephew rather than brother - here is his announcement as Chief Ghillie in 1895. (There's a painting of William Brown the brother from 1870ish about halfway down this page where he looks a good deal older already.)

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 08/Apr/2015 06:40:30

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Owen all I can say is fantastic, I think you are 100% correct, I am going to proceed on that basis, Thanks for the effort. Mary. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Thanks for the support. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Thanks for the Highland Gillies bit.

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 08/Apr/2015 06:46:25

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] Do you think his name is Mr C. Thompson rather than Thomson?

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 08/Apr/2015 08:33:03

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] Dont be pickie : ) ..Both are valid surnames [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] I did think, if a brother, the age difference was odd but who am i to question the queen ; ) you're right of course. William Brown was a nephew and not the same William Brown as in your tartan link. Thanks....Q.E.D

  • profile

    sharon.corbet

    • 08/Apr/2015 09:28:00

    [https://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] [https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] There was a Thomas Thomson in Windsor Castle as a footman in the 1881 census. (John Brown and ex-Empress Eugenie turn up in it too. As well as someone who is described as a "Table decker".) He was born in Crathie, same as John Brown. This leads me to various speculations :-) (i)This is the C. Thomson and C. is a misreading of a T, in which case the photo is probably a bit later than 1865, as he would have only been about 13. (ii). Thomas is C.'s younger brother/cousin. (iii) Thomas looks very like C., and so that's him with Victoria

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 23/Dec/2015 18:10:06

    While on another hunt I found this other Mason of the carriage probably taken the same day. catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000519465