First Class Battleship

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Where: Unknown

Try to find the spot where the photographer was standing.

When: 01 January 1905

Try to find the date or year when this image was made.
Crew sunning themselves in Castletownbere, Co. Cork. Infuriating that the ship's name is not clear on any of the caps...

Photographer: Almost certainly Robert French of Lawrence Photographic Studios, Dublin

Date: Circa 1905??

NLI Ref.: L_ROY_08963

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 67536
castletownbere cork ireland munster battleship ship guns deck uniforms chains smoking navy royalnavy lifeboat sailors mariners robertfrench williamlawrence lawrencecollection glassnegative nationallibraryofireland warship navalartillery navalgun cannon mainbattery tampion capstan

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  • profile

    derangedlemur

    • 09/Jan/2014 09:13:14

    It's probably a cruiser; it looks a bit small for a dreadnought anyway, and the all big gun nature of the armament would rule out a pre-dreadnought battleship.

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 09/Jan/2014 09:18:25

    Well, sadly it's not HMS King Edward VII, whose sailors we encountered before here. But similar - spot the differences ... [http://www.flickr.com/photos/ww2images/7000985011/]

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    derangedlemur

    • 09/Jan/2014 09:24:06

    Actually, maybe it is a pre-dreadnought. It looks quite like HMS Goliath. Or HMS Formidable. Edit: Or indeed quite a large number of late pre-dreadnought classes. e.g. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/HMS_Montagu_%...

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    ccferrie

    • 09/Jan/2014 12:00:26

    Looks like it was moored somewhere around here

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    ccferrie

    • 09/Jan/2014 12:15:51

    Here's a record of HMS Ocean (a Canopus-Class battleship) in Castletownbere in 1905 www.plymouth.gov.uk/edwardianphotos/notice824.html

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    ccferrie

    • 09/Jan/2014 12:16:34

    and another of HMS Montagu (Duncan-class) also in 1905 www.plymouth.gov.uk/edwardianphotos/notice827.html

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    ccferrie

    • 09/Jan/2014 12:20:52

    That same source has a number of photos of Castletownbere from 1905 entitled "shore leave" www.google.com/search?q=plymouth+edwardian+photos+castlet...

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    ccferrie

    • 09/Jan/2014 12:21:39

    Here's HMS Ocean for comparison upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/HMS_Ocean_%28...

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    bartholowaty | Photography

    • 09/Jan/2014 12:56:50

    Stunning capture.. this is wonderful image,Nicely done,good work my friend ... ...keep up your really good work ;-) ---- Bart

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    Leonard Bentley

    • 09/Jan/2014 13:01:23

    Hi, A small point but as the title is back to front, is it flipped?

  • profile

    robinparkes

    • 09/Jan/2014 13:37:37

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] The title is written on the reverse of the negative so it will be back to front when viewed from the emulsion side.

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    martin devlin1

    • 09/Jan/2014 15:21:59

    robinparks info would always be written on the non emulsion side of the plate and when printed will read correctly as the emulsion would be in contact with the photo paper or if printed in an enlarger the same would occur which strongly suggests that this is image was scanned with the emulsion facing upward creating a mirror image and needs to be flipped 180* to correct it

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    TEXASJOHN

    • 09/Jan/2014 16:08:51

    The negative was reversed when the photo was printed. The writing clearly says Battleship!

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    doblecachanilla

    • 09/Jan/2014 16:10:48

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/10941[email protected]] I've seen many old scanned photos that show negative's handwritten info reversed but if you flip them 180 degrees then the readings in the picture itself become reversed.

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    guliolopez

    • 09/Jan/2014 16:23:15

    As per [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]], it certainly looks a lot like a Canopus-class vessel. I can't find anything in this photo (or others in the series) to distinguish the fore-deck, wheel house, main gun or other elements from the picture ccferrie posted of the HMS Ocean. I can however find differences from images of other ships in the Canopus-class and Swiftsure-class and contemporaneous classes. For example, on the Canopus herself, the arrangement of windows on the wheel house is a little different from what we see in the photo here. In others the gun casement looks a little "squarer". Etc. But nothing has stood-out in comparing this pic to other confirmed pics of the HMS Ocean. I am however very very far from being expert enough to even imply that this is definitely the HMS Ocean. No doubt someone more nautically read will point out the quite obvious differences with the port and starboard phalanges. But it does seem plausible to me...

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    tony_kalopsidiotis

    • 09/Jan/2014 16:31:19

    Excellent photo

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 09/Jan/2014 16:50:44

    If I can put in my two cents' worth (as Ken Brockman would say)... Despite all the reasoning around emulsion and negatives, etc., what we're dealing with here is a Lawrence Studio convention which is evident throughout the collection, and apparent on many of the Lawrence images on here. On all images, the "posh" writing on the glass plate negative prints as we humans read it and the hasty "scrawly" writing is always reversed. If you have a look at this recent photo, you'll see what I mean. Have a check back through Lawrence Collection uploads here and you'll see further examples... This photo is just missing its "posh" title that would have made things clearer - possibly Robert French or William Lawrence weren't too happy with it. I'd agree with them. The name of the ship on the caps should be clear as a bell! P.S. I know that wasn't the most scientific of explanations, but on this companion Castletownbere image (at super duper high res), you can just make out that the sergeant's cap reads HMS something blurry or other - hence the photo is definitely the right way around...

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Jan/2014 18:32:07

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] That companion shot specifies that the big guns are BL 12 inchers, which wikipedia says were fitted to Majestic and Canopus class battleships.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Jan/2014 18:37:53

    So the Ocean in 1905 looks good!

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    derangedlemur

    • 09/Jan/2014 19:21:45

    If those are 12" the sailors are particularly fat-headed.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 09/Jan/2014 21:56:59

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] The sailors heads are small, the guns are far away.

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    dutkasam

    • 09/Jan/2014 22:12:48

    Look like the old days again . Love it

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 10/Jan/2014 02:35:12

    If those are larger-than-twelve inch guns, they are either on the Trafalgar-, Royal Soverign-class or it's the HMS Sans Pareil. 13 or 16 inch guns. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pre-dreadnought_battleships...

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 10/Jan/2014 02:37:30

    If they're smaller than 12, it's a Centurion class, or the brand new King Edward VII-class, built like 1905'ish...

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 10/Jan/2014 02:44:32

    HMS Hibernia?

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    derangedlemur

    • 10/Jan/2014 07:04:18

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] I'd have thought 6" or 8" myself but there's no battleships of that era with anything that small. That's why I thought it was a cruiser initially. It's not either a Swiftsure or a Centurion though, so they must be 12".

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    ccferrie

    • 10/Jan/2014 14:58:32

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] I know nothing about gun sizes but my money is on HMS Ocean because of the photographic evidence from the Plymouth archive and the similarity to the photo of the Ocean on Wikipedia

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    KenjiB_48

    • 15/Jan/2014 21:58:33

    You can see why the command housing is called the "bridge"...

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 16/Jan/2014 04:29:53

    It's got to be the Ocean. Look at the photo on wikipedia, upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/HMS_Ocean_%28..., the bridge has two parts, upper and lower, held together by bars at a 45 degree angle : \ / -----\ /. Carol, it's the HMS Ocean!!!

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    Sailpix IRL

    • 27/Jan/2014 17:45:41

    Agree with NLI: Photo is right way around. Photo was taken around midday, looking North. 'Hungry Hill' can be seen on upper right corner. Eastern half of Bere Island would be directly S of camera position. Disagree with NLI: Quote: ". . . possibly Robert French or William Lawrence weren't too happy with it. I'd agree with them. The name of the ship on the caps should be clear as a bell!" End quote. A bit harsh. Remember late 19th century/early 20th century camera shutter speeds & light sensitivity of emulsions weren't what they are today, therefore impossible for photographers to 'freeze' the 'action'. Both the ship (albeit at anchor) and the sailors are moving, hence the motion blur. A fabulous photo given the technical restraints – in my view! :)

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    myheadismyonlyhouse

    • 24/Mar/2015 21:45:57

    Heres another shot taken same time and same place. The identifying caption is almost rubbed away but you can just about make out HMS Ocean on the bottom of the pic. catalogue.nli.ie/Record/L_ROY_08964?loadLightbox=yes