Myles and Bertie

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Where: Unknown

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When: 03 October 1911

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These two gentlemen are brothers Hon. Captain Myles Ponsonby (left) and the Hon. Bertie Ponsonby.

Photographer: Poole Photographic Studios, Waterford

Date: Tuesday, 3 October 1911

NLI Ref.: P_WP_2356

Info:

Owner: National Library of Ireland on The Commons
Source: Flickr Commons
Views: 45312
mountcongreve kilmeaden waterford ireland munster costumes milesponsonby bertieponsonby ruff tights doublets beard ahpoole arthurhenripoole glassnegative nationallibraryofireland tuesday 3rd october 1911 20thcentury majorhoncyrilmylesbrabazonponsonby mylesbrabazonponsonby cyrilmylesbrabazonponsonby grenadierguards honbertiebrabazonponsonby bertiebrabazonponsonby royalbuckinghamshirehussars poolephotographiccollection moustaches

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  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 09:10:50

    I don't see either gentleman in the 1911 census (or the 1901 either!), so I suspect they may be visiting from Over the Water.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 09:16:34

    Here is a Myles Ponsonby of about the right vintage.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 09:17:19

    And that Myles had a brother, the Hon Bertie...

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 09:18:25

    If it is my Myles, he died in action in France, 28th of September 1915. That Bertie lived to be 82.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 09:25:27

    OS 25" link to Mount Congreve.

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    guliolopez

    • 05/Nov/2013 10:14:03

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] I'd say you have them correctly ID'ed alright Niall. Good find. Both were of a "peerage" family. Whatever one's thoughts on it, records for landed-types does make searches easier. And, however odd the lads look in their theatre garb (as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern? perhaps Merchants of Venice?) their military records suggest they were not "soft" types by a long stretch.

  • profile

    O Mac

    • 05/Nov/2013 10:28:13

    The Mount Congreve connection? A sister of these two loons, a Lady Helena Blanche Irene Ponsonby, was married to Major John Congreve. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Congreve. We have seen their mother, the "Countess of Bessborough" before.[http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6101101372/in/photolist-ai8JSY-arAHB8]

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 10:35:43

    Helena and Major Congreve

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 05/Nov/2013 10:38:48

    I wonder if Mr Poole fooled around with the image to make a classic elizabethan courtier carrying his own head, like [http://www.flickr.com/photos/statelibraryofvictoria_collections/10466218786/]Dr. H. S. Lynn, magician A challenge to photoshoppers out there ... !

  • profile

    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Nov/2013 10:46:10

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Thanks Niall. I'd be very happy that you have the right gentlemen, and that this was taken at Mount Congreve. Myles was a Captain at this stage according to Poole Photographic Studio, but Major by the time he was killed in September 1915.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 11:01:48

    Major Congreve's mother was Alice Dillon of Clonbrock, auntie of this pair: More Besties from the Clonbrock Estate

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    BeachcomberAustralia

    • 05/Nov/2013 11:34:58

    Myles' war grave / memorial at Loos, France - www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=15353563 . He's not wearing a wedding ring in this photo, which might mean this is before his July 1911 marriage? [Ed - D'oh! it is dated October 1911] [http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] It looks very like a studio photo to me, as do 'Similar Items' in the NLI catalogue.

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    derangedlemur

    • 05/Nov/2013 11:41:46

    There's a Sir Cyril Ponsonby in the Carry on films, but the script-writers all had a fleet air arm background, not grenadier guards like our Cyril. Coincidence, or did they know some ancient associate of his, or did they just go through Debrett's looking for dead people who couldn't sue?

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Nov/2013 13:51:03

    Lord Oranmore was Myles Ponsonby's brother-in-law and replied to a vote of condolence reported in the Irish Times of Friday, 8 October 1915, saying:

    ... Major Ponsonby met his death on behalf of the country and the Empire. They were right in saying that he had died a hero's death, for he died leading his regiment to within thirty yards of the German trenches in the assault on Hill 70, which was gallantly won by their soldiers. (Hear, hear.) His death to me, concluded his lordship, is a grievous loss; in fact, everyone who knew him loved him, as he was the model of what an Irish gentleman and a soldier ought to be. (Hear, hear) ...

  • profile

    ofarrl

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:05:32

    The last of the Congreves to occupy the house died in 2011 at the age of 104. He would have been about 4 when the photo was taken. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/finance-obituaries/85...

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:11:57

    Myles and Bertie's youngest sister, Gweneth, also playacting: September 30, 1911 She is clearly at Bessborough House, though, not Mount Congreve.

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:28:15

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] See what I mean about Mount Congreve and fantastic costumes. Found more evidence of the Ponsonby penchant for theatricals in the Irish Times. In 1902, for Bertie's Coming of Age...

    The festivities in connection with the present celebration comprised on Monday and Tuesday theatricals, "Uncle's Will", "A Pair of Lunatics", and the screen scene from "School for Scandal", in which the characters were represented by Miss Irene Ponsonby, ... the Hon. Vere Ponsonby, the Hon. Myles Ponsonby, the Hon. Bertie Ponsonby...
    (Friday, 10 January 1902) and
    Theatrical Entertainments at Castle MacGarrett On Thursday and friday, August 20th and 21st, three grand theatrical entertainments will be given at Castle MacGarrett, Claremorris ... The following amongst other will take part: Lady Irene Congreve, Lady Gweneth Ponsonby, Captain the Hon. Myles Ponsonby, Hon. Bertie Ponsonby...
    (Wednesday, 12 August 1908) P.S. For his coming of age, Bessborough employees gave Bertie a "Gold cigarette case and matchbox, set with diamond shamrocks, engraved and crested" (Irish Times of Friday, 10 January 1902)

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:33:24

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland] So it seems Lady Helena Blanche Irene Congreve née Ponsonby mentioned upthread, the lads' sister, went by Irene.

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    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:35:44

    Here are Gweneth and Irene (in costume again!).

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:42:07

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachcomberaustralia] You're right to express caution (not like you at all!) about the location. Have removed it from the map as Mount Congreve, as we can't be sure...

  • profile

    Niall McAuley

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:47:57

    Just how many of these outfits did they have?

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    DannyM8

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:54:25

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] Great Job Niall

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Nov/2013 14:58:22

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/gnmcauley] I'd imagine they had a very accomplished seamstress on staff?

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    TEXASJOHN

    • 05/Nov/2013 15:40:52

    Do we know what the occasion was?

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 05/Nov/2013 15:47:26

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]] No, so feel free to investigate! :)

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    La Belle Province

    • 05/Nov/2013 18:49:22

    Hey nonny no!

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    oaktree_brian_1976

    • 06/Nov/2013 03:43:57

    1911 or 1611?

  • profile

    Slimdandy

    • 07/Nov/2013 05:32:13

    Hello again. I used this here: Breanna, Myles and Bertie emerge From A Cloud of Negativity Thank you!

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    National Library of Ireland on The Commons

    • 07/Nov/2013 10:44:36

    [http://www.flickr.com/photos/slimdandy] Thanks Bob, and hello again to you too! :)